Featured Yes, atheists can have objective morality

Human nature is not a definition but a term. Humans have this nature, but what it actually is does need some defining, or some description.

Human nature does not naturally seek ultimate good but its own selfish “good.” Christians know this for certain from Jesus’ own example in the garden where he prayed, “Not my will but thine.” We also know it from the command, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” which is not the natural aim of human nature.

However, all men know this about human nature both from introspection and observation. What we know is that we love ourselves and that we do not by nature love others as ourselves.

We could agree that the supposed objective “goods” you pose naturally universally exist, but only for the self. And even then their definition will be subjective.

As for what one can imagine, no one can imagine a world where all the people in this one live in happiness forever without some major changes of state involving the self. I think CS Lewis tried to address this in his novel The Great Divorce.

 

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
- Luke 18:19

 

I read the chart, but I am confused.

Ignoring “Divine Command Theory” and focusing exclusively on “Natural Law Morality”, could you explain to me why this is wrong:

• I smash your head in with a rock and eat your cheeseburger.

If I was a wolf and you were a raccoon, I might certainly attack you to get the rabbit that you were eating. Clearly, NATURE says my actions are not immoral.

 

If this is your argument, I completely missed it in your OP.

 

Judges 21:25

"Everyone did what was right in his own eyes."

Is that not human nature? Left to humanity there would be no objective truth, only the truth of the one who carries the biggest stick.

 

That's getting way off track and ignoring the points being made. We need to restate the OP argument, as it seems to be getting lost in the shuffle. And let’s not forget that the context of the OP is atheism, namely the assertion that atheists share in the same objective moral standard as that being argued—per the title “Yes, atheists can have objective morality.” So, here is the OP argument:

Questions:

1. How do atheists openly, objectively demonstrate their universal human desire for God?

2. In what way do atheists admit to being Godward creatures (creatures oriented to God)?

My own answers to these is that atheists do not so demonstrate this, but vehemently oppose any desire for God, that atheists do not admit to being Godward but instead vigorously work and argue against God, and they do so by "virtue" of being atheists.

 

"I reckon people are going to be just about as happy as they make up their minds to be". Abraham Lincoln. [supposedly]...but true...

 

"Live long and prosper".

 

If God is missing, it cannot be objective; it is only subject to the whim of man

 

The problem is that the argument you propose here and in the OP takes major leaps without establishing validity.

The assertions in them have no basis in fact beyond what my own posts are stating. There is agreement when the self is the focus, but not when venturing beyond that.

If the proposal were that atheists recognize a need to somehow protect their own assets via societal contract, then there is still agreement. But the focus is still on the self, not on others.

Your posts seem to claim that there is some sort of inherent caring for others universally, that is, for the entire human species. While there may be tribal concerns, human nature does not naturally care about everyone else in the world. Not even close.

There is no care for universal human life or universal human happiness in human nature. This doesn’t mean no one gives lip service to it in some way, but that’s not the same thing.

Matthew 5:46-47

46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

 

Backatcha.

 

You realize the Fall (sin) corrupted nature, don't you?

"For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?"
- Romans 8:22-24

It seems you are holding to definitions God has not endorsed. It seems odd to me that you are bringing up a godless topic on a Baptist discussion board.

 

How ought humans behave if God did not create them and God does not exist?