Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
If he spiritually dead, he cannot and will not seek after the True God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
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Seeking God?
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11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Until God intervenes alone, that's his condition... Brother Glen
Then if he has the ability to sin he has the ability to trust in the gospel message or why the command to preach the gospel?
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Sinners can hear and believe the gospel message and be saved. Spiritual dead is separation from God not incapable of hearing and trusting in Christ Jesus for salvation
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Calvinist proof texting on display. I am amazed that so many "christians" on this board think using out of context one liners is the way to support view.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
The present tense verbs: “keep on asking”; “keep on seeking”; “keep on knocking” tell us that as unbelievers we can seek God. So we are to seek the good things of God and what could be better than salvation.
The phrases signify to seek with earnestness, diligence, and perseverance. The promise is, that what we seek shall be given us. It is of course implied that we seek with a proper spirit, with humility, sincerity, and perseverance....God is willing to provide for us, to forgive our sins, to save our souls, to befriend us in trial, to comfort us in death, to extend the gospel through the world. Barnes
Some other verses to look at
Proverbs 8:17, Jeremiah 29:13, Matthew 6:33, Luke 13:23-24, Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27, Galatians 2:17, Hebrews 11:6
Mat 7:8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
The present tense verbs: “keep on asking”; “keep on seeking”; “keep on knocking” tell us that as unbelievers we can seek God. So we are to seek the good things of God and what could be better than salvation.
The phrases signify to seek with earnestness, diligence, and perseverance. The promise is, that what we seek shall be given us. It is of course implied that we seek with a proper spirit, with humility, sincerity, and perseverance....God is willing to provide for us, to forgive our sins, to save our souls, to befriend us in trial, to comfort us in death, to extend the gospel through the world. Barnes
Some other verses to look at
Proverbs 8:17, Jeremiah 29:13, Matthew 6:33, Luke 13:23-24, Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27, Galatians 2:17, Hebrews 11:6
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Rom 3:11 is in a context like all scripture is. And it tells you about the natural man
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. That word seeketh is the greek word ekzēteō:
- to seek out, search for
- to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise
- to seek out for one's self, beg, crave
- to demand back, require
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So man naturally do not dilligently seek Him which True Faith requires.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Those scripture are for Gods spiritually alive children, not the spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, they dont seek God
Verses that teach that some of the lost some of the time seek the God of the Bible: Thus humanity can and does seek God naturally some of the time when exposed to God's revelation.
Exodus 33:7
Matthew 13:18:23
Luke 13:24
Matthew 19:16-22
Matthew 23:13
Thus Romans 3:11 teaches the lost do not seek God when sinning.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
He is dead because he sinned. Having sinned, he is no longer able to respond to the gospel without God’s intervention.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The verse you quoted just proves what I have been saying. Man can seek God and find Him.
Heb 11:6 And without faith
it is impossible to please Him,
for he who comes to God
must believe that He is
and
that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why not?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is why we have creation to show us that there is a creator, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the gospel message, and the free will to be able to make real choices.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is your understanding of scripture as you can not seem to conceive of God that actually gave man a free will so that He could be just and the justifier of those that freely trust in Him or not.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
It gives the impression you do not believe they are really Christians. Was that your intention?
If someone disagrees with you on the meaning of the passage in context they aren’t really Christians.. they are supposed “Christians”?
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Partially Correct, per Romans, every person on the planet rejected that general revelation of God found in creation.
Conviction of God Holy Spirit and the gospel of Jesus Christ are special revelation. They do not work together with general revelation found in creation to bring people to salvation. That is an unbiblical concept.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You're reading way to much into what I wrote.
Romans 3:10-12
as it is written:
“THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD;
THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
as it is written:
“THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD;
THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks out God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time,. Or, option three, "there is no one who seeks out God when sinning. Thus we are all under sin.
Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.
Ask yourselves, what were they doing before they "turned aside?"
Ask yourselves does scripture teach the lost are able to give "good" gifts to their family?
Thus at any time is clearly precluded by the context as a viable interpretation.
Scripture has many examples of lost people seeking God such as the rich young ruler. Or many try to find the narrow way that leads to life.
The the premise that the lost never seek God unless enabled by irresistible grace is obviously invalid.
Verses that teach that some of the lost some of the time seek the God of the Bible: Thus humanity can and does seek God naturally some of the time when exposed to God's revelation.
Exodus 33:7
Matthew 13:18:23
Luke 13:24
Matthew 19:16-22
Matthew 23:13
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Those that reject the God of creation have no excuse but the context does not show that all denied the God of creation, that is just something that you read into the text. But when we see that the Holy Spirit convicts the whole world you call it special revelation. You make an assumption in one case and reject what the bible says in the other. Your being selective in what you believe the bible says.
What you call the special revelation of the Holy Spirit would indicate that He only convicts some people but the bible disagrees with you. But even conviction does not guarantee that all will respond in a positive way to that conviction. When the gospel message is presented to a group of people not all will accept the truth of the message even though all are convicted by it. Acts of the Apostles 13:16-48
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Ok, so are you saying that when you use “christians” in quotes you are not questioning the profession of faith of those “christians”?
Peace to you
Romans 3:10-12
as it is written:
“THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD;
THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
as it is written:
“THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD;
THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT;
THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks out God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time,. Or, option three, "there is no one who seeks out God when sinning. Thus we are all under sin.
Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.
Ask yourselves, what were they doing before they "turned aside?"
Ask yourselves does scripture teach the lost are able to give "good" gifts to their family?
Thus at any time is clearly precluded by the context as a viable interpretation.
Scripture has many examples of lost people seeking God such as the rich young ruler. Or many try to find the narrow way that leads to life.
The the premise that the lost never seek God unless enabled by irresistible grace is obviously invalid.
Verses that teach that some of the lost some of the time seek the God of the Bible: Thus humanity can and does seek God naturally some of the time when exposed to God's revelation.
Exodus 33:7
Matthew 13:18:23
Luke 13:24
Matthew 19:16-22
Matthew 23:13
Obviously some of the lost seek God in response to His revelation, and those who deny this fact, avoid any explanation, so they change the subject.
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