The Book of Ephesians

[JD731]

If I were to 'agree' with you then I would not be honest with myself, and, I don't feel the least embarrassed.



Good grief man, have you grown dense? Look at the context this passage is pulled from. The gist is simply that, in Christ, 'God is no respecter of persons'. In Christ we're all equal. We're all 'sons of God'. Galatians 3:26-28

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
"28. There is in this sonship by faith in Christ, no class privileged above another, as the Jews under the law had been above the Gentiles (Ro 10:12; 1Co 12:13; Col 3:11).
bond nor free—Christ alike belongs to both by faith; whence he puts "bond" before "free." Compare Note, see on [2342]1Co 7:21, 22; [2343]Eph 6:8.

neither male nor female—rather, as Greek, "there is not male and female." There is no distinction into male and female. Difference of sex makes no difference in Christian privileges. But under the law the male sex had great privileges. Males alone had in their body circumcision, the sign of the covenant (contrast baptism applied to male and female alike); they alone were capable of being kings and priests, whereas all of either sex are now "kings and priests unto God" (Re 1:6); they had prior right to inheritances. In the resurrection the relation of the sexes shall cease (Lu 20:35).

one—Greek, "one man"; masculine, not neuter, namely "one new man" in Christ (Eph 2:15)."

↑
You have totally forgotten what you said in post #65. Do you know what the word "literally" means.

JD said - Paul making the distinction between Jews and gentiles
kyredneck said - There’s ‘literally’ NO distinction made between the two, the two have now been made one:

Paul wrote Romans in 58 AD. He wrote Ephesians in 60 AD. In Ephesians he says there is no difference between Jew and gentile in the church, the body of Christ, even after the Jews were first to be in it after the resurrection of Christ for the sake of fulfilling an eternal purpose of God, which is creating a bride for his glorified Son after the similitude and physical demonstration of it in the creation of Adam and Eve. The woman taken from Adam's inert body and presented to him as his wife, after his awakening by God.

Paul was saved in 37/38 AD and when he wrote Ephesians he had been a Christian for about 22 years. He said this about himself in his letter to the Romans.

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Anyone with an unclouded view of words can figure out by what they say, and the context, that the people of God were Israelites, of whom Paul was one. He is not claiming he foreknew anyone besides "his people. " Paul is still an Israelite and nothing changed because he was born again except he is making the point that because of the national unbelief of Israel, God has temporarily cut it (the nation) off and is dealing with individuals who will come to him in spite of the national rejection, which he calls those who come, "the remnant according to the election of grace," of Israel.

Since there are so few and God had prepared for a large house, we will read beginning in v 13 that he included the gentiles. WHY? It was so his house may be full!

Spoken to gentiles like you and me.
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel (not forever but), until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved (not immediately but after he has killed all those who were bidden and would not come) : as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

There is going to be a marriage supper for Jesus Christ and a saved Israel is going to be in attendance. The remnant doctrine will be over at that event.

Here is a sure fire thing. God did not invite the gentiles because he had pre chosen us but here is the reason he invited us to come.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

No gentile is in Christ, in his body, because they were prechosen, but because God opened the door of his house so you might come in by faith to fill his house.

Those in the house have many differences but their standing as a son of God by faith in Christ makes them equally sons.

One should always ask a text questions and then believe the answers that God gives.

 

[taisto]

Did I use Luke 13:24 as a "proof-text?"
The text shows accurately that many of the spiritually dead seek to enter the narrow way that leads to life.
I have not ignored any verse, passage, chapter of book of the entire bible.
Did I say God does not "work to the saving souls and bring them to Himself?" Nope

And so it goes...

That verse does not prove your claim. I have shown you this.

 

[kyredneck]

No gentile is in Christ, in his body, because they were prechosen

Incredible, and ignorant.

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

Do you think this was addressed only to the Jewish saints at Ephesus? Not.

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

 

[Alan Gross]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is a fruit, that comes from the Spirit, not a gift of God?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
- Galatians 5:22-23

The Faith Of The Saints

Ernest C. Reisinger

"Just over four hundred years ago, in late October, a young Augustinian monk, professor of theology, and pastor in Whittenburg, Germany, in the fire of his zeal for Christian truth, nailed 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church. He had left the study of law and entered the priesthood, seeking to be justified before God.

"His name was Martin Luther.

"As a result of studying the Scriptures, he discovered biblical truths that had long been covered and obscured (only contained in the churches in the wilderness) by the ritual and rubble of Rome. One of the great truths then restored to the (mainline) Churches was justification by faith alone.

"The issue before us today is not a denial of justification by faith alone, but rather a perversion of that doctrine.

"Present-day preaching often excludes the possibility of spurious (or non-saving) faith; however, religious deception is the worst kind of deception because of its eternal consequences. We must distinguish properly between justifying faith, and a spurious or counterfeit faith.

"The Bible very clearly warns against spurious faith; therefore, I wish to direct attention to its warnings and note some differences between spurious and true believers. I intend to cite biblical cases of spurious faith, showing that the Scriptures teach the existence of belief which is not saving faith. I propose also to define true faith and give some biblical examples of that faith which savingly joins one to Jesus Christ for all eternity."

see: Spurious or Counterfeit Faith? Paul believed Scripture before his conversion, but not Savingly.

 

[JD731]

Incredible, and ignorant.

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

Do you think this was addressed only to the Jewish saints at Ephesus? Not.

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

You are struggling to make sense out of a very sensible truth. Why do you think Paul quotes the OT in Romans 9 as if the gentiles would know anything about that? When an Israelite is out side of his land he is cut off from his covenants and God looks on them as if they were gentiles. This passage he quoted was in Hosea, and Israel (as opposed to the two tribes called Judah) ,was dispersed, all ten tribes, in the year 722 BC. God pronounced that because of their sins he would not have mercy on them until they were called the sons of God. To be a son of God requires a new birth. A new birth requires a blood sacrifice that had power to wash their sins away. I am not going any farther now, but read the text.

Ho 1:4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

He had mercy on Judah. He did not have mercy on Israel. The "as," beginning in V 25 is a conjunction extending the context of gentiles from above, gentiles because they were not his people.

25 As he saith also in Osee (Hosea), I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

There can be little doubt in my mind that the place where he pronounced this curse on Israel was in Jerusalem, probable at the festival of Pentecost about 30 years before they were driven from their land. All Israel kept the annual feasts of Israel.

Check this out, understanding that Peter, James, and John wrote letters and ministered to the circumcision, see Ga 2, and Paul wrote his letters to gentiles. Look what Peter said to the circumcision, (strangers in Asia Minor) referencing Hosea 1. The people to whom he wrote would get it even if you don't.

1 Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Remember the new birth Hosea promised . Look at this beginning of the chapter;

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

I double dog dare you to believe the words you read and make contextual determinations.

 

[taisto]

At what point will these words sink in:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."
- Galatians 3:28-29

 

[kyredneck]

You are struggling

...nope. It comes pretty easy for me.

 

[JD731]

At what point will these words sink in:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."
- Galatians 3:28-29

The point from the Calvinist crowd is the argument that those in the body of Christ are Israelites. Israelites are the children of Jacob, not Abraham. I am not sure if you know this but Jacob (supplanter) had his name changed by God to Israel (prince with God).His offspring were called the children of Israel.

One man on this forum proudly blasted out the claim that he was an Israelite, and no one came to his aide to help instruct him, but me. I was glad to do it.

You guys are conflicted on all your doctrines.

 

[kyredneck]

One man on this forum proudly blasted out the claim that he was an Israelite, and no one came to his aide to help instruct him, but me. I was glad to do it.

That would be me! Born from Jerusalem above, a circumcised heart with the law written upon it, worship by the Spirit of God, glory in Christ Jesus, have no confidence in the flesh..... Nathanael is my brother:

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1

...compare with:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: Ro 9

 

[Van]

That verse does not prove your claim. I have shown you this.

Yet another denial of God's word. Folks, note this poster knows what it does not mean, i.e. what it says, but does not post what the verse is claimed to mean. Fiddlesticks

Contrary to false teachers, scripture teaches in verse after verse that the lost sometimes do seek God and His promises. The Rich young ruler. The people prevented from entering the kingdom of heaven.
The "many" who seek the narrow path. Even in the OT we have people who sought the God of the Bible.

 

[taisto]

Yet another denial of God's word. Folks, note this poster knows what it does not mean, i.e. what it says, but does not post what the verse is claimed to mean. Fiddlesticks

Contrary to false teachers, scripture teaches in verse after verse that the lost sometimes do seek God and His promises. The Rich young ruler. The people prevented from entering the kingdom of heaven.
The "many" who seek the narrow path. Even in the OT we have people who sought the God of the Bible.

Your first sentence is an open untruth by you.
Your text does not support your claim that unsaved and spiritually dead people sometimes seek God.
The texts that I have shown you tell you that every response toward God is because God is drawing people to himself. That is not people choosing in their anti-christ flesh to seek God That is God dragging unwilling sinners to himself.

Please do not state something that is demonstrably untrue about me. Your statement is unfair and ungodly toward me. Please stop.

 

[Van]

Your first sentence is an open untruth by you.
Your text does not support your claim that unsaved and spiritually dead people sometimes seek God.
The texts that I have shown you tell you that every response toward God is because God is drawing people to himself. That is not people choosing in their anti-christ flesh to seek God That is God dragging unwilling sinners to himself.

Please do not state something that is demonstrably untrue about me. Your statement is unfair and ungodly toward me. Please stop.

LOL, you can stomp and shout, flap your arms and run about. God's word says many would seek the narrow path that leads to life. Full Stop

Contrary to false teachers, scripture teaches in verse after verse that the lost sometimes do seek God and His promises. The Rich young ruler. The people prevented from entering the kingdom of heaven.
The "many" who seek the narrow path. Even in the OT we have people who sought the God of the Bible.

 

[JD731]

That would be me! Born from Jerusalem above, a circumcised heart with the law written upon it, worship by the Spirit of God, glory in Christ Jesus, have no confidence in the flesh..... Nathanael is my brother:

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn 1

...compare with:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: Ro 9

I mean, you are just not going to believe the words of any text. First, Nathanael was the Israelite whom Jesus saw and opined he had no guile. He did not say anything about you. How you make the application to your imagined doctrine I have no clue.

Second, now with your second point you are claiming to be a son of Abraham instead of a son of Israel (Jacob).

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children (of Israel, Abraham had a child by Hagar = of the flesh): but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

Do you not understand that metaphors are being presented here to teach us about the necessity of the new birth. Never in the scripture is the firstborn the one chosen of God, but the second born.

Adam - Jesus - both sons of God - Lk 3:38 - Jn 3:16
Cain - Abel-
Japheth - Shem
Ishmael - Isaac
Esau - Jacob
Israel - Judah
And on and on.

The reason for the commentary on Isaac is because he represents the miracle son, Jesus, who was brought into the family miraculously after all ability of the flesh for the promised son to come had been expended. Abraham is always a typical picture of God the Father and he typifies no one else.

The reason God divided Israel into two nations is because when he brings the two back into one family with the Holy Spirit indwelling them is because there must be the trinitarian signature on all things created by God. The physical nation which sprang from Abraham ( Jehovah) was a collective one, God's firstborn. Born of the flesh with a need to be born again.

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

They will receive a collective second birth.

Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Verses 26 and 27 are both spoken to gentiles about Israel. Will you believe it?

 

[taisto]

LOL, you can stomp and shout, flap your arms and run about. God's word says many would seek the narrow path that leads to life. Full Stop

Sir, you provide no scripture. I already showed you that your one prooftext did not support your claim. Simply having you restate an empty claim makes you look silly.

 

[kyredneck]

Nathanael was the Israelite whom Jesus saw and opined he had no guile.

Compare:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

...with:

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Ro 2

 

[JD731]

Compare:

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

...with:

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Ro 2

I am going to quote another poster here because his comments seems appropriate. I hope he doesn't mind.

Sir, you provide no scripture. I already showed you that your one prooftext did not support your claim. Simply having you restate an empty claim makes you look silly.

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

But he is a Jew nevertheless. Context is lost on you. Read it.

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

See how reason is lost on you? God is not teaching that gentiles become Jews. He is teaching that the outward forms of the physical law of Moses they had been practicing, and continue to demand of others, was a physical figure for a spiritual truth that has now been done away because the real thing is now here in Christ. THINK!

 

[Van]

Sir, you provide no scripture. I already showed you that your one prooftext did not support your claim. Simply having you restate an empty claim makes you look silly.

Yet another denial that I provided Luke 13:24 in post # 97, and you quoted me citing the verse several times.
The false charge of proof texting, where a verse is taken out of context to make a false claim, is completely false. All they have folks is denial and false charges.

Just read Luke 13:24, it says contextually and obviously that "many" seek the narrow way that leads to life. Full Stop

 

[taisto]

I am going to quote another poster here because his comments seems appropriate. I hope he doesn't mind.

JD, I do mind. You took me out of context and implied I was referring to a different poster. If you want to state something similar, that's fine, but don't quote me out of context. I was not referring to the same poster and my comment was specific to a different poster. So, please don't quote me out of context.

 

[taisto]

Yet another denial that I provided Luke 13:24 in post # 97, and you quoted me citing the verse several times.
The false charge of proof texting, where a verse is taken out of context to make a false claim, is completely false. All they have folks is denial and false charges.

Just read Luke 13:24, it says contextually and obviously that "many" seek the narrow way that leads to life. Full Stop

Please stop. I did not deny that you posted Luke 13:24. I directly addressed your extremely bad use of that text to create a theology not taught in the Bible.
That verse does not teach that "the lost sometimes do seek God." I provided verse from John 6, Romans 3, and Ephesians 2 which show you that the dead don't seek. Instead, the dead are dragged (drawn) to God by God himself for the express purpose of graciously saving the dead, making them alive, and fulfilling the predestined purpose of their election before the foundation of the world. The Bible teaches this in many places, but you cling to Luke 13:24 as your sole verse as though it defeats all the passages that prove you wrong.

Please "FULL STOP" on your absurdities and openly untruthful claims. You are not acting in a Christian manner at all when you are being deceitful.

 

[Van]

Please stop. I did not deny that you posted Luke 13:24. I directly addressed your extremely bad use of that text to create a theology not taught in the Bible.
That verse does not teach that "the lost sometimes do seek God." I provided verse from John 6, Romans 3, and Ephesians 2 which show you that the dead don't seek. Instead, the dead are dragged (drawn) to God by God himself for the express purpose of graciously saving the dead, making them alive, and fulfilling the predestined purpose of their election before the foundation of the world. The Bible teaches this in many places, but you cling to Luke 13:24 as your sole verse as though it defeats all the passages that prove you wrong.

Please "FULL STOP" on your absurdities and openly untruthful claims. You are not acting in a Christian manner at all when you are being deceitful.

Yet another effort to change the subject to my behavior, rather than the fact that many inspired texts in scripture clearly teach the lost sometimes seek God and His promises!!!!!!!

Just read this denial I posted scripture!!!! "Sir, you provide no scripture. I already showed you that your one prooftext did not support your claim."​

Full Stop

Next just read this absurdity: "I provided verse from John 6, Romans 3, and Ephesians 2 which show you that the dead don't seek."

Did I say spiritually dead people do not seek God some of the time, perhaps even most of the time? Sure, I did, as we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, and when we do, we are not seeking God.

Do any of the citations from "John 6, or Romans 3 or Ephesians 2" say the lost never at any time seek God or His promises? Nope.
Full Stop