Featured The Tribulation Period

A whole lot of valid points are made in these first three posts.

1) The "Great Tribulation" is a future period described as occurring at the end of the age of grace.

2) Today, we (siblings of Christ) suffer tribulation, sometimes even physical death.

3) Part of the Great Tribulation will not be experienced by those who have born anew.

4) Repentance gives glory to God.

5) The Millennial Kingdom on earth will occur after the Great Tribulation.

And some of the points are questionable:

1) The footnote link to how the Dwight Pentecost points to the Great Tribulation being primarily for the Nation of Israel didn't work, and I doubt the validity.

2) The Church is foreshadowed in the OT. This is the Progressive Dispensationalist view, i.e. the Church is part of "All Israel." Thus what foreshadows the Messiah, foreshadows the Church.

 

The OP attempts to separate the children of the inheritance from Israel, saying the "tribulation is primarily Jewish." Here I will disagree. The tribulation is distinctly addressing God's wrath being brought upon the children of Babylon. This wrath falls precisely because the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet have been going about the earth, killing the children of God.

Throughout the Bible we see this pattern:
Satan sets about to kill the line of the promise. Great distress falls upon God's children. God intervenes and utterly crushed the children of the beast and the lovers of Babylon. We see this cycle over and over again. When John received the Revelation he was shown the cycle and told that this cycle would continue as the spirit of antichrist continues to seek the destruction of the children of God. This will continue until the last Christian comes to saving faith, ensuring that not one person perishes. Then the King of Kings returns and utterly destroys the enemies of His servants. The entire Bible points at this. All the verses shared by the OP point at this. John continually points at this.

It seems, then, that the difference between the OP and myself is in how we understand the tribulation and in who it is that makes up the line of the promised inheritance.

My distinction is this: There is the line of the promise, who have all received the mark of God upon them, and there is the line of the beast, who have all received the mark of the beast upon them. That's it. There is no other groups. These groups exist today, at this present hour, and we are those who call out to the world to those who will be saved before the end comes.

 

The Tribulation is over before the day of wrath.

Matthew 24:29, ". . . Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: . . ."

Revelation 6:12-17, ". . . the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains. And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? . . . ."

 

Done already, ancient history:

21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

22For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gahered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Mt 23

 

There's none so blind.

 

The little horn Daniel 7, Antichrist, what is his aim?

 

The period of sevent seeks was symbolic, the fulfillment was literal. It was literally fulfilled in the time that my Lord was on earth. He minerstered to the Jews for one week, in the midst of the week, the seventieth week, he was cut off. The ministry to the Jews was continued by the apostles until the conversion of Cornelius and his household.

Mat 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Rom 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

 

Look at this carefully:

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." ( Matthew 24:29-31 ).

See also this:

" But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." ( Mark 13:24-27 ).

Immediately after the tribulation, God shall send His angels to gather His elect...from everywhere they currently are. To bring in 1 Thessalonians 4, which describes His second coming, Jesus Christ shall descend from Heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the Archangel and the trumpet of God.

Has any of that happened yet?
Not that I'm aware of.

 

@kyredneck
But if what you are saying is true, then all of God's people are with Him, bodily, right now:

" For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise * first:.
17 then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them * in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ).
* ( be resurrected )

Note that His second coming is bodily, just as His first one was:

" And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." ( Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11 ).

Therefore, since this bodily second coming of the Lord Jesus is immediately after the tribulation, according to God's very words in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, and since God's people are not bodily with Him right now, then it hasn't happened yet, has it?

For some reason I'm seeing it quite the opposite, especially when I examine His words very carefully.

 

" And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." ( Daniel 9:26 )

Does this not say that Messiah will be ( and has already been ) "cut off" ( killed ) after 62 weeks, and not in the middle of the 70th?

I also see this right before it:

" Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem * unto the Messiah the Prince ** [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. *** " ( Daniel 9:25 )

* Nehemiah 2.
** Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, John 19.
*** Nehemiah 7.

So, from the going forth of the commandment ( from Artaxerxes ) to rebuild Jerusalem ( in Nehemiah 2 ) to Messiah the Prince ( Jesus Christ's crucifixion, or being "cut off" in Daniel 9:26 ) is 69 weeks ( 7 "weeks" plus 62 = 69 "weeks" or roughly 483 years )...
And from the finishing of Jerusalem to Christ's crucifixion is 62 "weeks", which means it took 7 "weeks" ( roughly 49 years ) to rebuild Jerusalem.

Please read it again, David, perhaps you're missing the math...
I'm coming up with something entirely different when I read it.

 

After 62 weeks. What comes after 62 weeks.

I agree 49 years for it all to be completed temple, city, people set free, from the declaration of Cyrus to the thirty second year of Artaxerxes who was the same person as Darius.

Timeline From 1st year of Cyrus

Cyrus 9 years
Cambeses 6 years
Pseudo Smerdis <1year
Darius/Artaxerxes 32 years total about 48 years

 

Take another look at Daniel 9:24-26.

" 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. "

Here's what I see:
Seventy "weeks" are determined upon Daniel's people and upon the holy city ( Jerusalem ).
It's done to..

1) finish the transgression
2) make an end of sins
3) make reconciliation for iniquity
4) bring in everlasting righteousness
5) seal up the vision and prophecy
6) anoint the most Holy.

 

" 25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Next is laid out the timeline:

From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem ( in Ezra 1 and Nehemiah 2 ) to Christ is 7 + 62 = 69 weeks.
In that time ( 69 weeks ) both Jerusalem will be rebuilt, plus Christ will come.

 

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. "

Finally, more detail is given in the above:

After 62 weeks shall Christ be "cut off" ( crucified ).

So, given everything that the passage states, I see that the total time from start to finish ( beginning of rebuilding Jerusalem to end of Christ's earthly life ) is 69 weeks
It includes both Jerusalem being rebuilt in Ezra and Nehemiah's time, plus Christ coming and being crucified...do you follow?

Therefore, 69 "weeks" x 7 years = 483 years from the going forth of the commandment to build Jerusalem to Christ's crucifixion.
62 x 7 years ( 1 "week" = 7 years ) must equal 434 years from the end of the rebuilding of Jerusalem to Christ being "cut off" ( crucified ).

Simple subtraction:

483 years - 434 years = 49 years ( 7 "weeks" ), which is roughly how long it must have taken to rebuild Jerusalem.

With all that said ( if my math checks out, and I believe it does ),
The Lord Jesus cannot have been "cut off" during the 70th "week", because the Scripture says He will be "cut off" at the end of 69 "weeks", not in the middle of the 70th.

That's one "week" left unaccounted for.

 

New threads:

The contents of: The Seventy Weeks and Great Tribulation by Phillip Mauro,

to peruse and an example from it;

The Signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars. One of the most difficult Bible passages.

And maybe one of the most enlightening commentaries on a passage that you will see.

If you can get this, you can get a lot more out of Bible prophecy.

Otherwise, I think you're stuck IMHO.