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Featured Jesus is the new Jonah

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Arthur King, Oct 3, 2023.

  1. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    In Matthew 12, Jesus makes a remarkable statement about his death and resurrection:

    Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him,
    “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
    But He answered and said to them,
    “An evil and adulterous generation craves a sign; and so no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea monster for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.”


    Jesus says his death and resurrection is like being swallowed and then vomited back up by a sea monster—the sea monster obviously representing death. This imagery that Jesus uses was elaborated on by Christian theologians especially during the Patristic period (the first 750 years of Christianity). Death, who has already swallowed humanity because of our sin, swallows Christ as well, but in so doing swallows perfect divinity and sinlessness, which death cannot keep down. Death is therefore forced to vomit up humanity, hence the resurrection.

    John Chrysostom on 1 Corinthians 10:23-24:

    Just as when someone swallows food and can't keep it down and so vomits up what was in them; so this also was what happened to Death. Death swallowed the body of Christ, but Death could not digest it, and therefore had to vomit the body up. Indeed, Death travailed in pain, while he held Christ, and was straightened until He vomited Him up. This is what Peter the Apostle is referring to when he says that Jesus “has loosed the pains of death (Acts 2:24)”. For not even a woman in labor with a child has ever been so full of anguish as Death, torn and racked in sunder while he held the body of the Lord in his belly. And that which happened to the Babylonian dragon, when, having taken the food it burst asunder in the midst, this also happened unto him. For Christ came forth again not by the mouth of death, but by the belly of the dragon, having burst it asunder and ripped it up in the very midst.


    Gregory of Nyssa:

    “In that way, as it is with a greedy fish, he [Death] might swallow the Godhead like a fishhook along with the flesh, which was the bait. Thus, when life came to dwell with death and light shone upon darkness, their contraries might vanish away. For it is not in the nature of darkness to endure the presence of light, nor can death exist where life is active.

    John of Damascus:

    Wherefore death approaches, and swallowing up the body as a bait is transfixed on the hook of divinity, and after tasting of a sinless and life-giving body, perishes, and brings up again all whom of old he swallowed up. For just as darkness disappears on the introduction of light, so is death repulsed before the assault of life, and brings life to all, but death to the destroyer.

    Augustine (saying the Devil took the bait rather than Death) says:

    The Devil exulted when Christ died, and by that very death of Christ the Devil was overcome: he took food, as it were, from a trap. He gloated over the death as if he were appointed a deputy of death; that in which he rejoiced became a prison for him. The cross of the Lord became a trap for the Devil; the death of the Lord was the food by which he was ensnared. And behold, our Lord Jesus Christ rose again. Where is the death which hung upon the cross?

    Martin Luther:

    Even so has our Lord God dealt with the devil; God has cast into the world his only Son, as the angle, and upon the hook has put Christ’s humanity, as the worm; then comes the devil and snaps at the (man) Christ, and devours him, and therewith he bites the iron hook, that is, the godhead of Christ, which chokes him, and all his power thereby is thrown to the ground. This is called sapientia divina, divine wisdom.

    We find this “Belly of the Beast” narrative also in many films and works of fantasy literature, in which a hero confronts a dragon or monster that has an impenetrable exterior. In order to defeat the monster, the hero must be swallowed whole so that he can destroy the beast from the inside. Recent examples include Men in Black, The Avengers (This example is interesting because the hero who enters the beast, Iron Man, specifically mentions Jonah and the Whale before intentionally being swallowed), Hercules, The Mandalorian, Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows. This is a classic fantasy image because it is a gospel image. Jesus is swallowed by the dragon of death, and blows it apart from within by his resurrection.

    Though imagery such as this was extremely popular in the Patristic period, it seems foreign to modern theology. John Stott says that the analogy of the fish hook is “grotesque, as is Augustine’s sermonic use of mousetrap imagery.” But this is how Jesus describes his own death! Jesus says his death is like being swallowed by a sea monster, and his resurrection like being vomited up by the sea monster. If we find this imagery grotesque today, then there is something deeply wrong with our understanding of the cross. We are in bad shape if we think that Jesus’ own descriptions of his death on the cross are “grotesque.”
     
    #1 Arthur King, Oct 3, 2023
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I would be more impressed if Paul or one of the other apostles had written anything of that sort.
    The problem with the Church Fathers is that they take a statement of our Lord and put a spin on it that He does not suggest.
    Can you show anywhere in the Bible that says that the devil exulted over the death of Christ as per Augustine? Jonah is a type of the Lord Jesus in God's rescuing of him from the belly of the fish, but in nothing else; certainly not in his reluctance to obey God and his hatred of those to whom he came to preach.

    I suggest that we should be looking for the meaning of Matthew 12:40 in v.41. The scribes and Pharisees rejected the Lord Jesus in His ministry, connived at His death and (most of them) dismissed His resurrection. Well might the men of Nineveh stand in judgment upon them
     
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We also have to keep in mind what was sermon and what was academic theology.

    The main theme is that Christ suffered under the power of Satan, under evil, sin and death. Often death was personified as Satan, and often Satan literally meant Satan.

    The point is that when we view the Cross we see the power of darkness (the power of Satan, under which Rome and evil men existed) culminating on God's Messiah and crushing Him (the Serpent crushing His heel), yet Jesus having victory over these powers (crushing the Serpent's head).
     
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  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    But of course, when we come to the Bible we find that it was God Himself who crushed the Messiah (Isaiah 53:10 etc.). The crushing of a heel is not usually fatal. Maybe we need to look again at what that verse means.
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In Isaiah 53 we find that it was God's will to crush Him (this is restated by Peter....Christ died under the powers of Satan but also by the predetermined plan of God).

    Crushing the heel is often fatal. That was a legitimate concern (we have medicines today, but still it is often fatal).

    But here you are right - while a serpent "crushing" the heel of a man is often physically fatal it did not defeat Christ.
     
  6. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    The analogy that Jesus draws regarding his death is clear:

    Just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea monster for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

    Just as Jonah was swallowed by the sea monster and then vomited out, so also I will be swallowed by death and then vomited out.

    Who had the power of death? The devil. How was the devil deprived of his power of death? The death of Christ. This is precisely what the author of Hebrews says:

    Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. (2:14-15)

    Jesus says that his death is an act of murder by the devil, which brought judgment on the devil. In speaking to the Pharisees in John 8, Jesus says,

    You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.

    Jesus also says that his death is an act of judgment, but Jesus says it is judgment upon the devil. See John 12:31-33:

    Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.” Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.

    Jesus does say that in his death “judgment is upon this world.” But who is being judged? “The ruler of this world will be cast out”. It is the devil, the “ruler of this world” who is being judged. Notice the parallelism between “Now judgment is upon this world; Now the ruler of this world will be cast out.” The judgment upon the world is casting out the ruler of this world. In John 14:30, when Jesus speaks of his death he says “the ruler of this world is coming.” Jesus again repeats this point in John 16:6-11, when he speaks about the sending of the Holy Spirit:

    And [The Holy Spirit], when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

    The gospels emphasize this narrative thread in other places. Before Judas betrays Jesus into the hands of sinners at the Last Supper, Jesus sees that Satan enters into him (John 13:27). Jesus sees his betrayal and murder as the work of Satan.

    In Matthew and Luke, Jesus repeatedly calls the Pharisees a “brood of vipers.” This is a reference to the promise of Genesis 3, the first gospel presentation in the Bible, that the son of the woman would strike the head of the serpent, but the serpent would strike the heel of the Son of the woman, and there would be conflict between the descendants of the Son and the descendants of the Serpent (the brood of vipers). Jesus is saying that his death is when the Serpent strikes the heel of the Son, as the culmination of the conflict between the descendants of the woman and the descendants of the serpent.
     
    #6 Arthur King, Oct 3, 2023
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  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    yet Jesus having victory over these powers (crushing the Serpent's head).

    Was that a completed action, at the death and resurrection of Jesus ?

    Romans 16:20 YLT and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet quickly; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen!
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, I'd say it is an accomplished action insofar as Christ is concerned. He has freed man from bondage. Death has no sting. Man is reconciled to God.

    But insofar as individual experience, it is not. We still struggle with sin. We still plead with men to be reconciled to God.
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

    I would say Jesus has been so clothed and we are awaiting to be so clothed.
     
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  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Not for the first time, you misunderstand the clear meaning of Isaiah 53:10. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise (or 'crush') Him; He has put Him to grief' (cf. also Romans 3:25-26). It is God Himself who crushed the Son. Satan, like the serpent he is, struck at Christ all the way through His ministry; wicked men conspired against Him and crucified Him, but it was God Himself who crushed Him, and until you get that, you will not truly understand the cross.
    Once it is understood, Isaiah 53:10 becomes the most wonderful verse for meditation. How the Father must love us to be pleased to crush His beloved Son; and how the Lord Jesus must love us to give Himself for us in such a terrible way (John 10:17-18; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 12:2).
     
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  11. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    As we have been over before, that God "crushed" the Son doesn't provide sufficient evidence to the narrative you are trying to push.

    You are trying to say "God crushed the Son, therefore Satan did not crush the Son." God's sovereignty means that is a non sequitur. How Satan could crush someone and God crush someone at the same time is clear from the opening scene of the book of Job. God ordains events in which sins and injustices take place without Himself being unjust or the agent of sin.

    You are also trying to argue "God crushed the Son, therefore the Son's suffering was the deserved suffering of a guilty person," but that also is a non sequitur. Psalms like psalm 44 describe people being crushed by God, but clearly they are innocent people suffering unjustly.

    Isaiah 53 explicitly states that the Servant's suffering was unjust.

    v8 says plainly "In his humiliation, justice was denied him."

    v10 says
    "He had done no violence,
    Nor was there any deceit in His mouth."

    v11 calls the Servant "the Righteous One, My Servant,"

    And then in 1 Peter 2:19-25, the longest NT commentary on Isaiah 53, the context is unjust suffering. Peter goes as far as to say that it is unjust suffering that "finds grace with God."

    Or consider the offering of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham would slay his son Isaac in the offering, but is he "satisfying wrath" on Isaac? Of course not. That Abraham is "striking" his son provides zero evidence that he is "satisfying wrath" on his son. It is a complete non sequitur.
     
    #11 Arthur King, Oct 4, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2023
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    That is absolutely NOT what I am arguing. In fact, I wasn't aware that I was arguing at all. I was just quoting Scripture.
     
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  13. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    That is the core claim of penal substitution. Jesus, in some sense, becomes guilty before God, and justly suffers the wrath of God in our place.
     
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    :rolleyes: Isaiah 53:11. By His knowledge, My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquity.'
     
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  15. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    So you do affirm the claim of penal substitution that "the Son's suffering was the deserved suffering of a guilty person," and that is what Isaiah 53:11 means?
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    This is a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" sort of question.
    Just read Isaiah 53 through until you understand it. When you have done that, and meditated a while on 1 Peter 3:18, perhaps you will understand the doctrine of Penal Substitution. Plainly you do not understand it at the present time.

    'The doctrine of penal substitution states that God gave Himself in the person of His Son to suffer instead of us the death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity as the penalty for sin.'
    Pierced for our Transgressions by Jeffery, Ovey and Sach.
     
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Joseph is an interesting type of Christ.
    Genesis 45:8; 50:20. "So now, it was not you who sent me here, but God ........... But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive."
    Was God unjust to bring Joseph to Egypt as He did? Was Joseph guilty of adultery with Potiphar's wife?
     
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Just out of interest, apart from Genesis 3:15, what Bible text are you using for your claim that Satan crushed the Lord Jesus? More than our Lord's heel was crushed at Calvary.
     
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  19. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    I already responded to this in a previous post. Copy and pasting here:

    The analogy that Jesus draws regarding his death from Jonah is clear:

    Just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea monster for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

    Just as Jonah was swallowed by the sea monster and then vomited out, so also I will be swallowed by death and then vomited out.

    Who had the power of death? The devil. How was the devil deprived of his power of death? The death of Christ. This is precisely what the author of Hebrews says:

    Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. (2:14-15)

    Jesus says that his death is an act of murder by the devil, which brought judgment on the devil. In speaking to the Pharisees in John 8, Jesus says,

    You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.

    Jesus also says that his death is an act of judgment, but Jesus says it is judgment upon the devil. See John 12:31-33:

    Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.” Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.

    Jesus does say that in his death “judgment is upon this world.” But who is being judged? “The ruler of this world will be cast out”. It is the devil, the “ruler of this world” who is being judged. Notice the parallelism between “Now judgment is upon this world; Now the ruler of this world will be cast out.” The judgment upon the world is casting out the ruler of this world. In John 14:30, when Jesus speaks of his death he says “the ruler of this world is coming.” Jesus again repeats this point in John 16:6-11, when he speaks about the sending of the Holy Spirit:

    And [The Holy Spirit], when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me; and regarding righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you no longer are going to see Me; and regarding judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

    The gospels emphasize this narrative thread in other places. Before Judas betrays Jesus into the hands of sinners at the Last Supper, Jesus sees that Satan enters into him (John 13:27). Jesus sees his betrayal and murder as the work of Satan.

    In Matthew and Luke, Jesus repeatedly calls the Pharisees a “brood of vipers.” This is a reference to the promise of Genesis 3, the first gospel presentation in the Bible, that the son of the woman would strike the head of the serpent, but the serpent would strike the heel of the Son of the woman, and there would be conflict between the descendants of the Son and the descendants of the Serpent (the brood of vipers). Jesus is saying that his death is when the Serpent strikes the heel of the Son, as the culmination of the conflict between the descendants of the woman and the descendants of the serpent.
     
  20. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Joseph is a great example of a type of Christ:

    Joseph's suffering, at the hands of his brothers and at the hands of Potiphar's wife, was unjust. Are you saying that his suffering was just/deserved because God sovereignly ordained that it would happen? That if God ordains a person's suffering, that therefore that person's suffering must be just/deserved? That is what your view would entail.

    Again, I argue that God can ordain that acts of injustice and sins take place, without Himself being unjust or the agent of sin. Therefore, God's sovereignty and His ordaining of events cannot be used as evidence that all acts taking place in those events are righteous or deserved.

    -Just as Joseph was the beloved son,
    so also Jesus was the beloved son.

    -Just as Joseph had dreams of the whole cosmos bowing down to him,
    so also Jesus had the promise of the whole cosmos bowing down to him.

    -Just as Joseph testified that his brother’s behavior was bad,
    so also Jesus testified that the world’s deeds are evil.

    -Just as Joseph was unjustly betrayed for pieces of silver,
    so also Jesus was unjustly betrayed for pieces of silver.

    -Just as Joseph’s garments are torn and bloody,
    so also Jesus’ garments are torn and bloody.

    -Just as Joseph was raised up in power to be judge of the Israelites and the Egyptians,
    so also Jesus was raised up in power to be judge of the living and the dead.

    -Just as Joseph forgives his brothers,
    so also Jesus forgives humanity.

    -Just as what his brothers meant for evil against Joseph, God predestined for the salvation of many,
    so also what humanity and the devil meant for evil against Jesus, God predestined for the salvation of many.
     
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