Featured Not Closed Theology

I think the word your looking for is "freewill".

 

Anyone can seek but those that have hardened themselves will not seek God. They have made the willful / freewill choice to reject God.

 

Real correct! This stupid belief that all Calvinists believe in total predestination is just ignorant and a misrepresentation. We had an Administrative person here at BB named Tom who was a Particular Baptist who refuted this as well as do most Primitive Baptists (of whom I identify with). So these Open Theists are operating with incorrect information. Now does this posture breed arrogance, yes it sure looks like it.

 

Did you read all of Romans 11 or just select verses?

 

@Earth Wind and Fire & @DaveXR650 the term you are looking for but seem to have a hard time accepting is "FREE WILL". Why do you struggle so much with the fact that a sovereign God has given man free will?

 

Thank you for acknowledging that my view is in your words "utterly biblical".

How is asking you if you read all of Romans 11 or just select verses "change the subject" or "against the person" deflections? Your the one that pointed to Romans 11 are you not?

Not everything that points out your errors is an attack on you personally as you seem to think.

From your arguments I would you have been spending to much time reading Calvinist theology. You sound more and more like a Calvinist all the time. FYI that is not an attack just an observation.

 

Now everyone can read Romans 11.

I ask, then, has God rejected his own people, the nation of Israel? Of course not! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham and a member of the tribe of Benjamin. No, God has not rejected his own people, whom he chose from the very beginning. Do you realize what the Scriptures say about this? Elijah the prophet complained to God about the people of Israel and said, “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.” And do you remember God’s reply? He said, “No, I have 7,000 others who have never bowed down to Baal!” It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel have remained faithful because of God’s grace—his undeserved kindness in choosing them. And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved. So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have—the ones God has chosen—but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, “God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear.” Likewise, David said, “Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve. Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see, and let their backs be bent forever.” Did God’s people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves. Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it. I am saying all this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I stress this, for I want somehow to make the people of Israel jealous of what you Gentiles have, so I might save some of them. For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead! And since Abraham and the other patriarchs were holy, their descendants will also be holy—just as the entire batch of dough is holy because the portion given as an offering is holy. For if the roots of the tree are holy, the branches will be, too. But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root. “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t spare you either. Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong. I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness. And this is my covenant with them, that I will take away their sins.” Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn. Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead. Now they are the rebels, and God’s mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share in God’s mercy. For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways! For who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to give him advice? And who has given him so much that he needs to pay it back? For everything comes from him and exists by his power and is intended for his glory. All glory to him forever! Amen.
(Romans 11:1-36)

 

Did you not read Romans 11? It does not support your view but it does support what I have been saying. It seems to me that you do not like having your views questioned but that is what happens on a debate board.

Did you miss the part where the Jews were cut off for unbelief but they could be grafted back in through belief? BTW still waiting for you to point out what is unbiblical in my posts but since as you say were done I do not expect that will ever happen. Have a good day @Van

 

It is the Calvinists who espouse the idea that "God has from all eternity past, unchangeably and unalterably fixed whatsoever comes to pass..." but as for Primitive Baptists, we believe that predestination has reference only to the final destiny of God's people, ] not to the events of daily life. Yes, God is a God of providence, but providence and predestination are not synonymous. (Note that the word predestinate appears in its various forms four times in the Bible and always refers to people, not events of time.)

Now if your suggesting that FREE WILL is the way, I will disagree with you there but you always turn this into that don’t you? I personally don’t care what you think but quit calling everyone you disagree with a freaking Calvinist, and then add your other crap about our linage being Roman Catholic with theology created by Augustine… certainly no Primitive Baptist comes from that fiction.

Maybe if you studied more and stopped accusing ​

 

@Earth Wind and Fire you said I should do some study on Primitive Baptists. So I did and this seems to be the common thread that I have found regarding them.

"Primitive Baptists are found throughout the United States and are related to the Strict and Particular Baptists of the United Kingdom. They are Calvinists, adhering to the theologies of John Calvin, John Bunyan, and British theologians such as Henry Philpott. As Calvinists, they teach predestination--that before the creation of the Earth, God chose who would be saved and damned. No one knows who is which and no one can change this destiny." Pilgrims of Paradox: Calvinism and Experience among the Primitive Baptists of the Blue Ridge

The Primitive Baptists are strict Calvinists who believe that only those elected by God will be saved. They accept the verbal infallibility of the Bible and expect the Second Coming of Christ. Ministers require no special training, because Primitive Baptists believe that God can call anyone to be a minister. Britannica.com

Primitive Baptists

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Primitive Baptists – also known as Regular Baptists, Old School Baptists, Foot Washing Baptists, or, derisively, Hard Shell Baptists[2] – are conservative Baptists adhering to a degree of Calvinist beliefs who coalesced out of the controversy among Baptists in the early 19th century over the appropriateness of mission boards, tract societies, and temperance societies.[3][4] Primitive Baptists are a subset of the Calvinistic Baptist tradition.[1] The adjective "primitive" in the name is used in the sense of "original".[3]

I came across this on the net but this line contradicts the title of the article.

Title Ten Reasons Primitive Baptists Are Not Calvinists

"However, when people hear Primitive Baptists proclaim the Doctrines of Grace (election, predestination, etc.) they sometimes assume that Primitive Baptists are some branch of the Calvinist family."
http://www.pb.org/PBDocs/DoctrinalAbstract.pdf


So if I refer to you as a Calvinist it is because PB's hold to the Calvinist philosophy. Why do you claim not to be Calvinist when you hold to the Calvinist philosophy?

 

If a person believes in God, they will ask, like the lawyer did of Jesus, "What must I do to inherit eternal life." Then, they will go about life trying to answer that question.

The atheist, who doesn't believe in God, will resign themselves to no hope because they believe they have answered the question of the lawyer.

Is that free will? In both scenarios neither group seeks God. They, instead, seek their own answer and their own reasoning. If God does not intervene in that path which they are on, they will freely go to hell.

Is that free will? They certainly didn't will themselves to believe God since they were concerned with how they, themselves, would inherit eternal life. The answer is they cannot do anything on their own to inherit eternal life

 

You miss the obvious all the time. In either case they could have freely chosen to trust in God for their salvation. That is what free will means. Using your examples actually shows free will, they chose to reject God.
The only other view is that God caused them to choose what they did, so no free will. Is that the option that you are going with?

What can free will mean if not free will?
Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action (aka choosing “otherwise”). This does not require the person to be able to choose anything, nor does it require the absence of other influencing factors. It only requires the ability for a person confronted with a decision to be able to choose from among one or more possible options.

 

https://www.iowaprimitivebaptist.org/docs/Ten Reasons Primitive Baptists Are Not Calvinists.htm

 

However, when people hear Primitive Baptists proclaim the Doctrines of Grace (election, predestination, etc.) they sometimes assume that Primitive Baptists are some branch of the Calvinist family.

You follow the Calvinist philosophy and claim not to be calvinist. How does that work?

 

DOG is scriptural … we both follow scripture in that regard. Again though, there is no emphasis on John Calvin in our beliefs, practices etc.

 

You see the DoG as scriptural I see it as un-scriptural error. The message of the gospel is lost in the DoG as only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. If you are not part of this select group then you are doomed form the start.

The DoG goes against the character of God and also the bible itself. Christ gave us two commandments 1} love the LORD your God & 2} love your neighbor as yourself. These commandments require a persons to be able to think, reason and learn. In other words to have a rational mind. Just as those created in the image of God would have.

If God really loves mankind, which He does, then He would do everything He could to make it possible for all to be saved and not lock some out from salvation from the beginning because He "foreordained it". Are we to believe that we are to have more love for our fellow man than He does?

Also I do not refer to a person as a Calvinist because they follow Calvin per se but rather because they follow the views put forward by Calvin which you indicate that you do. {DoG}