Having the attitude toward God that, "You reap where you do not sow".

[Alan Gross]

Do you believe in Evangelism? I mean where Humans preach the gospel to unbelievers? Is that the general belief of primitive baptists?

I read a Primitive Baptist website that said this:
SOME QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT PRIMITIVE BAPTIST
We do object to the common idea of missions; namely, that eternal salvation is brought to individuals by the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel does not bring salvation but rather reveals salvation.

7. We believe that God’s elect shall be called, regenerated and sanctified by the Holy Spirit. By "called" the scriptures are referring to the direct impartation of spiritual life by God apart from the aid of preachers, bibles, tracts, or any other indirect means. All such means may be profitable to a child of God, but they all presume a living subject in order to be beneficial. (John 5:25, Titus 3:5).

from: theearstohear: Primitive Baptist Articles of Faith Commentary

"By "called" the scriptures are referring to the direct impartation of spiritual life by God"

And so exactly what is that talking about??
...

Purpose of the Gospel.

"The gospel was never designed to bring eternal life to anyone. It means nothing to the dead sinner, but is good news and glad tidings to the born-again child of God who feels to be poor and needy and unworthy of God’s mercy and grace, to hear that Jesus paid the sin debt, saved him from his sins and now he is preserved in Christ. (Isaiah 40:1 & 9, Isaiah 52:7, Ephesians 4:11-12, 2nd Timothy 1:9-10, John 21:15-17, Acts 20:28, 1st Peter 5:1-3)

"Regeneration, New Birth, Being Born Again: These different terms define what happens when God quickens one of his children into eternal life.

"We believe this is done by the life-giving voice of Jesus Christ and is always effectual and irresistible on the part of the individual. This is done separate and apart from the preaching of the gospel and without any aid of man. (John 3:6-8, John 5:25, John 6:37, Romans 8:30, Ephesians 2:1, 2nd Timothy 1:9)"

from: About Primitive Baptists - Bethel Primitive Baptist Church

"We believe this is done by the life-giving voice of Jesus Christ"

Then, what does this possibly mean in real life?
...

On the question of why do not Primitive Baptist evangelize?... We do!... We have the greatest evangelist there is GOD!!!.

They leave everything to God and make Jesus responsible for "calling" with His "Voice"(???)

.. And scripture to prove it!...

Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

We hear the above and, "the wind bloweth where it listeth", "God will have Mercy on whom He will have Mercy", etc., but no commitment on what "the life-giving Voice of Jesus" means or entails, or what the recipient experiences, at all.

Many, many questions here.

This, incredibly from: WHAT IS A PRIMITIVE BAPTIST? https://macedonia-pbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/What-Is-A-PB-Final.pdf

"There is something that is very mysterious about man being born again by the Spirit of God.

"It is a very intimate thing that happens directly in the heart of the sinner.

"No man is involved in that process, but God borns his people again directly and personally.

"From an external perspective, we cannot know exactly when
one is born again; we can only see the effects of that change in their heart. Jesus described the sovereignty of God in the new birth as the wind blowing upon their heart.

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell when it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8)

"We cannot pinpoint exactly when the wind blew upon a tree. We can only look at the effect upon the tree, listen to the sound thereof, examine what we know as the effects of wind,
and then reach a conclusion that the wind must have blown upon that tree when we see the leaves move.

"In like manner, we cannot know definitively when others (or maybe even yourself) have been born again.

"We can only examine the evidences of the Spirit in our lives and others and determine that the “wind of the Holy Spirit” must have blown in our hearts and given us a new nature in Jesus Christ."
...

 

[Alan Gross]

. If God wants to SAVE a man, he WILL, SAVE THAT MAN!... Is anything to hard for God?

Yikes, my thread has turned into a full blown discussion of Primitive Baptists. That they do not believe in Evangelism nor practice what Jesus commanded in Matthew 28 makes me think that they are disobedient brethren. Brethren, but unwilling to acknowledge the simple command, " Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

The Parables of the Pounds and the Talents both teach the The Lord heavily censors those who are disobedient to His Sovereign commands.

Having the attitude toward God that, "You reap where you do not sow", absolutely will not cut it with Jesus.

Both Missionary and Anti-Missionary Baptists believe in the Sovereignty of God, we just differ on whether we obey His Sovereign commands or try to pull off a, "look, You reap where you don't sow", attitude with Him.
...

Some people believe that a person cannot be saved unless he hears and accepts the Gospel. This belief completely damns anyone who has not heard the Gospel, even if his failure to hear it was because no one preached it to him. Is it reasonable to assume that God would predicate salvation on a belief such as this?

Someone might say that if a person never hears the Gospel, he is not held accountable and will therefore be saved automatically.

Since God has a people in every kindred and tongue and people and nation, certainly their salvation does not depend upon a preacher's reaching them with the Gospel, but it depends upon the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

THE END OF ELECTION IS INSEPARABLY CONNECTED
WITH ALL THE MEANS NECESSARY TO ITS ACCOMPLISHMENT.

"At the same time God chose His people He ordained all the means necessary to accomplish their full and final salvation. See Rom. 8:29,30.

"These means were inseparably joined to election in the decree of God.

"We have no sympathy with Hardshellism, hypercalvinism.

"To say that the elect will be saved whether they ever hear the gospel or not is to misunderstand completely the connection between election and the means God has ordained for the accomplishment of the end of election.

"Salvation- spiritual, temporal, and eternal- is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 5:1; Gal. 8:26).

"All the heathen that die without hearing the gospel will be lost (Rom. 1:19,20; 2:12).

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God
(Rom. 10:17).

"Wherever God has an elect soul, in the fullness of His own time, He will in some way send the gospel to call that one from darkness to light. See 2 Thess. 2:14.

"Thus Philip was sent to the elect eunuch, and thus it was given to Paul to endure that the elect might obtain eternal salvation (11 Tim. 2:10).

"Thus we have the divine tie between election and missions."
...

That says to me that they do not believe in preaching the gospel as a means of evangelism.

ELECTION IS INDISSOLUBLY JOINED TO THE GOSPEL AS GOD'S MEANS OF CALLING HIS ELECT TO SALVATION.

"This is proved by the Scriptures given above that show that regeneration is through the Word.

"And it is also proved by 2 Thess. 2:13,14.

"The elect have been chosen to "salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

"To this, Paul says, they are "called by our gospel."

"Typical Hardshells deny the indispensable necessity of the knowledge of the gospel in regeneration. For that reason they show little concern in the carrying out of the great commission."

Spoken like a true Calvinist !

As I said, Primitive Baptists believe in election. If you’re an elect atheist, you just can’t be lost if you’re elected.

God will bring the Gospel preached to them and save their soul by the New Birth of the Holy Spirit. They then will no longer be an atheist.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Parables of the Pounds and the Talents both teach the The Lord heavily censors those who are disobedient to His Sovereign commands.

Having the attitude toward God that, "You reap where you do not sow", absolutely will not cut it with Jesus.

Both Missionary and Anti-Missionary Baptists believe in the Sovereignty of God, we just differ on whether we obey His Sovereign commands or try to pull off a, "look, You reap where you don't sow", attitude with Him.
...







THE END OF ELECTION IS INSEPARABLY CONNECTED
WITH ALL THE MEANS NECESSARY TO ITS ACCOMPLISHMENT.

"At the same time God chose His people He ordained all the means necessary to accomplish their full and final salvation. See Rom. 8:29,30.

"These means were inseparably joined to election in the decree of God.

"We have no sympathy with Hardshellism, hypercalvinism.

"To say that the elect will be saved whether they ever hear the gospel or not is to misunderstand completely the connection between election and the means God has ordained for the accomplishment of the end of election.

"Salvation- spiritual, temporal, and eternal- is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 5:1; Gal. 8:26).

"All the heathen that die without hearing the gospel will be lost (Rom. 1:19,20; 2:12).

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God
(Rom. 10:17).

"Wherever God has an elect soul, in the fullness of His own time, He will in some way send the gospel to call that one from darkness to light. See 2 Thess. 2:14.

"Thus Philip was sent to the elect eunuch, and thus it was given to Paul to endure that the elect might obtain eternal salvation (11 Tim. 2:10).

"Thus we have the divine tie between election and missions."
...



ELECTION IS INDISSOLUBLY JOINED TO THE GOSPEL AS GOD'S MEANS OF CALLING HIS ELECT TO SALVATION.

"This is proved by the Scriptures given above that show that regeneration is through the Word.

"And it is also proved by 2 Thess. 2:13,14.

"The elect have been chosen to "salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

"To this, Paul says, they are "called by our gospel."

"Typical Hardshells deny the indispensable necessity of the knowledge of the gospel in regeneration. For that reason they show little concern in the carrying out of the great commission."





God will bring the Gospel preached to them and save their soul by the New Birth of the Holy Spirit. They then will no longer be an atheist.

There is no such thing as an elect atheist. Not in this life or the next. These are lies created by the evil one to deny the work and existence of the Trinity.

what’s more, I’ve never heard a Primitive Baptist teach that. Quite the contrary. When I was quite distraught over the death of my child and was told by multiple Presbyterian ministers that my child was probably in hell for not hearing the gospel it was a Landmark Baptist and a Primitive Baptist ( and I believe Tom Cassidy a Particular Baptist ) who told me that the Lord will speak directly the Word to redeem that child. Christ died for such as these innocents and I refuse to believe the teachings of Calvinist cultist's. Then and there, I stopped my relationship with ANY Calvinistic church and researched the Baptists leading me eventually to the Primitive Baptists where I find abundant comfort.

 

[Alan Gross]

There is no such thing as an elect atheist. Not in this life or the next.

These are lies created by the evil one to deny the work and existence of the Trinity.

told by multiple Presbyterian ministers that my child was probably in hell for not hearing the gospel

it was a Landmark Baptist and a Primitive Baptist ( and I believe Tom Cassidy a Particular Baptist ) who told me that the Lord will speak directly the Word to redeem that child.

Christ died for such as these innocents

I refuse to believe the teachings of Calvinist cultist's.

Then and there, I stopped my relationship with ANY Calvinistic church

and researched the Baptists leading me eventually to the Primitive Baptists where I find abundant comfort.

I don't know of anything in these statements that have anything to do with The Doctrines of Grace/ 'Calvinism', but thanks.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't know of anything in these statements that have anything to do with The Doctrines of Grace/ 'Calvinism', but thanks.

I’m commenting on my Brother Glens earlier comment… .If God wants to SAVE a man, he WILL, SAVE THAT MAN!... Is anything to hard for God?

Now, does Calvinism dispute this? My experience is that they are rooted in a hard systematic rules that provides very little or no mercy to things and situations that don’t fit in. They are hardest on the sinner and the downtrodden, the very same that Christ came to redeem. I was personally ashamed when I was a Catholic of the actions of pedofile priests and the RC coverup of these sins targeting children and I am ashamed of Calvinists who replicate Pharisees in their judgement. My child is in heaven because God wills it.

 

[MrW]

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Does that include squirrels?

 

[Alan Gross]

Does that include squirrels?

It might help to know what a 'creature' is in the Bible to answer your question.

 

[Piper]

Why can't primitive Baptists just answer the simple question with a yes or no.

Do you believe in evangelism, where it is incumbent on us to preach the gospel to unbelievers, or share, or write, or whatever method works?

Why do you think you have to explain your entire belief system every time someone asks you a simple question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why can't primitive Baptists just answer the simple question with a yes or no.

Do you believe in evangelism, where it is incumbent on us to preach the gospel to unbelievers, or share, or write, or whatever method works?

Why do you think you have to explain your entire belief system every time someone asks you a simple question?

I’m not the one consistently copying & pasteing.

 

[Piper]

I’m not the one consistently copying & pasteing.

That person might be on ignore now.
I know.

 

[Alan Gross]

My child is in heaven because God wills it.

The strongest and only argument for an infant or child to go to Heaven
is in the scriptures, without assumptions,
in the form of Preaching the Gospel of Jesus' Glorious Work
of Obtaining Eternal Salvation, by His death, burial, and resurrection,
as in they are presented and contained in The Doctrines of Grace.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Romans 10:17.

1 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel
which I preached unto you, which also ye have received,
and wherein ye stand;

These are saved 'brethren' Paul is speaking to,
who had 'received' 'the Gospel' 'preached' to them...

2 "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory
what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

and it was 'the Gospel' 'by which' they were 'saved'.

3 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Paul 'delivered'/preached 'the Gospel' to them
and they 'received' it in their salvation experience,
the same way Paul and everyone else who is ever saved 'received' it.

And what is 'the Gospel' that they were given
the Spiritual Enablement by the Holy Spirit in the New Birth to 'receive',
believe, and trust in, to save their souls?

"how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
according to the scriptures:" Romans 15.

That is how John the Baptist was saved as an unborn infant
in his mother's womb.

There is only one way of salvation.

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:18.

That 'word of truth' is 'the Gospel' 'the power of God unto salvation'.

Now, we know by The Doctrine of Total Depravity
that John the Baptist was a natural child of Adam
and therefore not innocent and sinless,
but a sin-cursed offender of God's Eternal Universal Moral Law,
from the moment of his conception, and IN NEED OF A SAVIOR.

5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God."

"You must be born again". John 3:7.

How? Out of the clear blue sky?

Not according to what Jesus told Nicodemus.

Jesus preached Nicodemus the Gospel of the Son of Man being lifted up.

John 3:12
"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have eternal life.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life.

17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;
but that the world through him might be saved.

18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already,
because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

So, John the Baptist was 'condemned already',
naturally as any blind son of Adam, in his mother's womb,
and needed to be 'born again'.

Did he get 'born again'?

Had John the Baptist been Unconditionally Elected from Eternity Past?

Certainly.

"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord,
and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink;
and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."
Luke 1:15.

And did that just happen? Automatically? By some kind of 'osmosis'?

Not according to how God teaches that He saves souls,
"For after that in the wisdom of God
the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching
to save them that believe."
I Corinthians 1:21.

That is your "Will of God", right there.

So, John the Baptist 'heard' and was able to understand 'the Gospel'
for the Holy Spirit to give him a saving knowledge of Jesus?

"And it came to pass, that,
when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary,
the babe leaped in her womb;
and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" Luke 1:41.

We learn from that right there that the babe, John the Baptist,
could 'hear' and understand that he was hearing about Jesus just fine.

And he leaped, because he was thrilled to hear about Jesus,
AS BORN AGAIN SOUL, because a lost soul would not.

How did he get that way?

How was John the Baptist born again, as an unborn infant?

How is any unborn infant or young child saved?

The One Way of Salvation.

Do you think the message of Jesus' Gospel had been within earshot
of that unborn babe, John the Baptist,
during the time he was on his mother's womb?

Sure. And that is how God saves any soul.

He couldn't have been any more dead in his sins and inabilities than I was
and God saved us both, through the Gospel being Empowered
and Quickened by the Holy Spirit.

So, as opposed the having A Hatred for the Gospel,
we should have the utmost reverence for it,
so much so that we PREACH IT TO ALL LOST SOULS,
EVEN THOSE IN THE WOMB AND JUST OUT OF THE WOMB, ETC.

Did your son not hear the Gospel?

How in the hell would they know?

The only real, rational question we need to entertain is,
"do you love and worship God,
despite what has happened in the death of your son,
considering all of what we are able to know
and we absolutely have not been given to know?"

That is where we are at and what we can by faith do, for sure.

There is Hope in Jesus, the Savior.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That person might be on ignore now.
I know.

For your edification, Primitive Baptists do believe in preaching the Gospel in all nations (Matthew 28:19)

 

[Alan Gross]

.If God wants to SAVE a man, he WILL, SAVE THAT MAN!... Is anything to hard for God?

Now, does Calvinism dispute this?

That would be "another gospel", Earth, Wind, and Fire".

"For after that in the wisdom of God
the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching
to save them that believe."
I Corinthians 1:21.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That would be "another gospel", Earth, Wind, and Fire".

Genesis 18:25. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[Alan Gross]

Genesis 18:25. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

1 Cor. 2:7;
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom,
which God ordained before the world unto our glory."

It is right for God to have Elected some souls to be saved,
as well as Him having elected the means by which they are saved.

"...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching
to save them that believe."
I Corinthians 1:21.

God can do anything, except what He has Self-Restricted Himself.

The Gospel is an Everlasting Gospel;

It is an everlasting gospel, which is the epithet given it
(Rev. 14:6; "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them
that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred,
and tongue, and people" ),

it was ordained in the council and covenant of God
before the world was, of which it is a transcript,
and so was from everlasting
(1 Cor. 2:7; "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained
before the world unto our glory:),

and “the word of the Lord endureth for ever,
and this is the word which by the gospel is preached” (1 Pet. 1:25),

and which will continue until all the elect of God are gathered in.

 

[MrW]

Does that include squirrels?

Yes, but quickly, before you shoot them.

 

[MrW]

It might help to know what a 'creature' is in the Bible to answer your question.

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Thus, Biblically, the creatures are humans.

 

[MrW]

Why can't primitive Baptists just answer the simple question with a yes or no.

Do you believe in evangelism, where it is incumbent on us to preach the gospel to unbelievers, or share, or write, or whatever method works?

Why do you think you have to explain your entire belief system every time someone asks you a simple question?

No, they don’t.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, they don’t.

What a cynical creature you have become and now are today. My experiences with this religious society does not match yours in the least. Rather, all I’ve experienced in them is a warm and ensuring group of people who do reach out to others evidence the Philippine gentleman who felt very comfortable with the PB’s, learned the gospel from them (he was originally a RC)and took it back to the Philippines in order to cultivate further children of God. Nobody told him not to, nobody tried to discourage him, and if I remember correctly from conversations with him and others these PB churches supported his endeavors. So lighten up, maybe your past experiences don’t have any correlation to what the PB church is today … the good ones that is and I can give you examples of some very good ones with Elders who reach out and continue to teach the gospel. You might be suprised!