Featured What is the Revelation and How Should Christians Read it

FYI, When we as brothers and sisters in the Lord hold different understandings in what the word of God says or means one or both are believing something that is not true. That is the whole reason to discuss our differences. 1 Corinthians 1:10 and 1 Corinthians 11:19, ". . . For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ."

Ephesians 4:15, ". . . But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: . . ."

 

One of Dr. Bob's rules for posting is this:

4. It is NEVER ACCEPTABLE to question someone's salvation relative to "interpretation/preferences" of doctrine. If false doctrine is taught, it will be stopped, but assumption is always that the BB member is simply not educated or confused, perhaps using poor word-choices, and not "doomed to eternal hell". Phrases like "If you were as spiritual as I am, you'd believe xyz" is another such put-down not tolerated.

There are too many times that differences are labeled by others as "FALSE Doctrine." As Dr. Bob said, FALSE Doctrine will be stopped. Stop calling genuine interpretational differences "False Doctrine."

 

I have had a various pejoratives used in regard to me and I tend to ignore them but that comment crossed the line. Perhaps Taisto was just frustrated that I would not see things as he wanted. Hopefully that will be the end of it and we can get back to civil discourse.

 

That word translated "heresies" is from a transliteration of αιρεσεις haireseis. Means dissensions there. That is what disagreements are.

1 Corinthians 11:19, ". . . For there must be also | dissensions | among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ."

 

Paul says " Not all Israel is Israel." He then shows us that all who are justified by faith are Israel. This is not a genetic, dna, connection to Jacob as a descendent. This is as a direct descendent in the line of being justified by faith. It is that line that is truly Israel.

 

The distinction was one of practice, Galatians 6:15, Genesis 17:13 for who would become Israel, the circumcision. Not the issue of who would be Abraham's seed, Galatians 3:29.

 

Silverhair, without a question you have been the meanest person on the BB, so don't act innocent. Please be civil yourself and actually argue your point rather than telling your opponent that they don't trust God or don't trust His Word. When you do such things, you know that you are intentionally being disingenuous. @Piper should be well acquainted with your tactics by now. I trust he is an observant person.

Saying you're sorry might be good for you.

 

#39 is all wrong. People are born in the Millennial Reign, and they are born SINNERS.

In Revelation 19 ONLY THE ARMIES OF ANTICHRIST DIE, NOT ALL PEOPLE. READ IT. BELIEVE IT.

 

I have never seen Silverhair being mean. He is extremely patient in presenting truth.

His only error is not capitalizing Bible. But he always tells the truth, in all his posts I have read.

Taisto, the only thing I can say for you is you’re very confused. Keep reading and here’s hoping you will grow in grace and knowledge of God’s Word.

 

No, he is not extremely patient at all. He rarely makes a good point. He does however tell those whom he disagrees with that they cannot accept the Bible and they cannot accept what the Holy Spirit is saying. His mode of operation is to denigrate his opponent with slurs and taunts of being unchristian. It would be wonderful if he could actually argue his position instead of telling his opponent how unchristian they are.

 

I invite you to provide scripture that tells us, first, that the millennium is after a pre-trib rapture and second, that humans are procreating during this post-trib reign.
Hint: you have no scripture for your assertion.

Here is what the text says. I will highlight it for you. It says "all humanity." Read it and believe it.

(Revelation 19:11-21)
Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. On his robe at his thigh was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, shouting to the vultures flying high in the sky: “Come! Gather together for the great banquet God has prepared. Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and strong warriors; of horses and their riders; and of all humanity, both free and slave, small and great.” Then I saw the beast and the kings of the world and their armies gathered together to fight against the one sitting on the horse and his army. And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the one riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

 

Yes, their entire army was destroyed. Not all people. The armies of all people.

Are all 330 million people in America in the Armed Forces? No.

Only the military is fighting for antichrist in that chapter. Only the military personnel are killed in that chapter.

You finally got it.

 

What about "all humanity" did you not get? Go back and read post #71. The text is very, very clear.

 

@taisto you use the NLT as your go to bible but it does not follow the Greek. It adds words that are not found in the Greek text.

And for ease of reading
Rev 19:18 that G2443 you should eat G2068 flesh G4561 of kings, G935 and G2532 flesh G4561 of commanders of thousands, G5506 and G2532 flesh G4561 of strong men, G2478 and G2532 flesh G4561 of horses, G2462 and G2532 of the ones G3588 sitting G2521 upon G1909 them, G1473 and G2532 flesh G4561 of all, G3956 both free G1658 G5037 and G2532 bondmen, G1401 both small G3397 G1473 and G2532 great. G3173

Are you saying that the whole population of the earth went to fight with the beast & antichrist? If so where would you put the approx, 2 to 3 billion people that would be living at the time?

 

I am saying that "the flesh of all" is all who took the mark of the beast. All who are in rebellion. I am saying that Revelation 19 is the final judgment of the world, the time when Christ comes and brings the bridegroom in Revelation 21 is immediately after.
I am telling you that the millennium is now. Satan is not allowed to bring all the nations against the church. I am saying, connect Revelation 19 (the return of Jesus) with Revelation 20 where all the deceived nations are rounded up by Satan and then Jesus returns.

The millennium is now.

Revelation is never meant to be understood linearly on an historical timeline like pre-millennialists do.

 

Not “all humanity”—the warriors of all humanity. The armies were (will be) soldiers from armies of all nations of the world. It’s plain English.

 

The text says all humanity. This means you have to ignore what is written and massage it into your end times theory. The plain English shows you are wrong
(Revelation 19:17-18)
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” (ESV)

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (KJV)

All men, is all humans who received the mark and were in rebellion to God.

So, pre-millennialism has a conundrum with its linear interpretations of Revelation.

 

The Millennial Reign is yet future.

How do I know?

Because satan is roaming the earth like a lion, seeking whom he may devour. He is thrown down to this earth and knows that his time is short, so he is wreaking havoc and deceiving the nations, and Christ and His Church are NOT ruling the nations with a rod of iron. If He and we were, hamas would never have existed, nor would hitler, either.

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2.

 

He is not free today. If he was, you and I would not be having this online conversation.

 

Taisto if you would read those verses in context you would find that your understanding is wrong.

Taisto you said Revelation is never meant to be understood linearly on an historical timeline but look at the time indicators language we find in these verses.

Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all, free and slave, both small and great."

The birds were to eat who’s flesh?

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

So we see 1] the beast, 2] Kings, 3] their armies {captains, mighty men, flesh of all}

Rev 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Beast & false prophet thrown into LOF so they are not present

Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

So what we have is the Kings & their armies that were killed as the beast and the false prophet are in the LOF

After this we see that Satan is bound and placed in a sealed pit for 1000 yrs after which time he will be released.

Rev_20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven,
Rev 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, ...who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3 ...But after these things he must be released for a little while.

While Satan is bound we see those that were beheaded for not taking the mark reigning with Christ

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

But those that died in Rev 19:21 would not be raised for 1000 yrs.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.

Satan is to be released after the 1000 yrs and he gathers another army to surround and attack the city of Jerusalem and the saints. But God protects them with fire from heaven.

Rev 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released...

Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire...will be tormented day and night forever and ever
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne…

This logically has to come after Satan has been let out and has been defeated by Christ

Then we will see the new heaven and new earth.

Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away

The phrase “the flesh of all” found in Rev 19:18 is shown to refer to the Kings and armies that were slain by Christ. Further we see from the context that the millennium is not now but is future.

So while you may hold to your Amill view, as you can see the biblical context does not support it.