Featured #2 What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"? What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?

And, it stands for what?

Nicolaitan means "a follower of Nicolas."

It comes from two Greek words, nikos and laos.

Nikos means "conqueror" or "destroyer," and laos means "people."

The original Nicolas was a conqueror or destroyer of the people!

 

There is no such teaching.

Because there is no such teaching?

And, since there is no such teaching,
I'm supposed to argue something besides, "There is no such teaching"?

How?

By saying, I'm not obligated to argue against something
that doesn't exist to start with?

I might as well launch into a big diatribe
against "The Abominable Snowman of Pasadena",
or "Holy Water", or "The Mystical Body of Christ",
"Slain in the Spirit", or "in the 'Eyes' of God",
or "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit", or "The Millennial Reign",
or "Spirit Baptism", or "Baptized into the Body of Christ", etc., etc.
or some equally fictitious pablum.

(excuse me, anyone that might sincerely believe any or all of those;
my bad, if you think I'm making fun of them;
I'm just saying that it is hard to argue against negative 'realities'.)

You haven't or can't learn what a "church" is, Biblically speaking, yet,
to handle the O.P. with ease, skill, and efficiency, so I know you are not ready
for what The Kingdom of God refers to in the Bible (I already tried that),
or how it is differentiated from a "church", or The Family of God",
so, what is Br. Alan to do?

 

Well played.

You can't call it.

But, good shot.

Jocularity advisory.

Well played.

 

There are not an abundance of writtings which articulate, "each of you members in this self-governing Democracy have one vote, with which we as a church make decisions", because it is self-evident within that form of government.

I did find this, for your dining and dancing pleasure, at:

POLITY
Biblical Arguments on How to Conduct Church Life.
Edited by MARK DEVER.

"Abundant authority could be cited in favor of the independence of the primitive churches;

—here that of the infidel Gibbon is given; Gibbon (i. chap. 15), says:

“The societies which were instituted in the cities of the Roman Empire
were united only by the ties of faith and charity.

"Independence and equality formed the basis of their internal constitution.

"Such was the mild and equal constitution by which the Christians were governed,
more than a hundred years after the death of the apostles.

Every society formed within itself a separate and independent republic...”

"...and they were each a distinct, independent community on earth,
united by the common principles on which they were founded,
and by their mutual agreement, affection, and respect;

"but not having anyone recognized head on earth,
or acknowledging any sovereignty of one of these societies over others.”

"The infidel, having no ecclesiastical preferences to favor, could speak impartially; and the archbishop, having no doubt as to the “authority” of the church to change apostolic appointments, could speak candidly.

"To these might be added the testimony of Mosheim, Neander, Gieseler, Hinds, and others.

“It is clear as the noonday,” says Mosheim.

"Such was the apostolic organization of the churches as to their officers,
membership, and relation to each other.

"They had, as officers, only elders and deacons, of equal rank, and chosen by the people;

—their members were all required to be converted persons;

—and the churches were all independent of each other.

II. THE OBLIGATION OF THE APOSTOLIC MODEL.

"Should the disciples of our Lord regard this organization
as a model obligatory upon them to adopt,
or has he left the form of church polity discretionary with his people?

"This is a question of great practical importance.

"Ecclesiastical history teaches us, that the first errors that infected the early church, leading it farthest astray, and exerting the widest influence in causing its departure from apostolic simplicity and purity, were not errors in doctrine, but in church government and discipline.

"And it is chiefly errors here, rather than in doctrine, that now separate the followers of our common Lord and Master. If all the true followers of our Lord could see eye to eye, as respects the scriptural idea of the nature and functions of his church, and the principles upon which its first organization proceeded, the chief differences, and most serious errors, that now divide the “body of Christ” into discordant and belligerent sects, would disappear.

"The question, therefore, is one of very great practical importance, and deserving a fuller consideration than may here be given to it. Whilst the importance of the form of church government should not, indeed, be unduly magnified, on the one hand, by being placed among things essential, yet, on the other, it ought not to be unduly under-estimated by being placed among things indifferent, nor that feeling indulged which would regard all questions relating to this subject as trivial and not worth the trouble of an earnest investigation.

"Our Saviour intended that his disciples should form themselves into churches; and when in Matthew xviii. 17, he says, “Tell it unto the church,” he has in view the societies or churches, soon to be formed, and speaks by way of anticipation. Man is a social being. The highest development of his nature as an intelligent being is found in society. In all matters that deeply interest and affect, he naturally seeks the sympathy, communion, and cooperation of kindred spirits. His religious nature is not an exception. “It is natural that those whose hopes and fears, whose joys and sorrows, are similar, should associate together that they may strengthen their faith by fraternal communion.

"Again: it is made the duty of every disciple to extend the spiritual reign of his Maker. Much of this labor can be carried on only by associated effort. For such reasons as these, our Lord has taught us that his disciples in any place should form themselves into fraternal societies.”

"They are intended to subserve the highest and most important ends in the world,—individual edification and growth in grace, and the evangelization of the world. Now, if any and every form of church government is equally adapted to promote these ends, and therefore equally “acceptable to the Master,” then the question proposed is no question at all.

"But this, surely, will not be affirmed, and cannot be maintained. It is certainly not true of any other kind of government. Any and all forms of civil government are not equally adapted to promote the true ends of government. The character, too, of a people is largely moulded, we know, by the character of the political government under which they live. Is there any reason for saying that this is not so as respects church polity? Will not the genius of the government, in the one case as well as in the other, reflect itself in the genius of the people?

"Will not a church polity that deals larger in rites and ceremonies, for instance, tend to impress a formal and ceremonial religious character upon its members? Will not a polity that exalts prominently the authority of its rulers, and the acquiescence of its members, tend to destroy the exercise of the right of private judgment and the sense of individual responsibility, and to impress a religion that consists in mere submission to church authority, and is satisfied with a blind following of the leadership of others?

"The external encloses the internal, and has an important influence upon it. “The outward form and constitution of a church; the laws or customs which regulate its worship and discipline; the functions assigned to its officers,—the ritual observed in its devotions; and its whole action as a visible Christian body,—react with great force upon its inner life, upon the doctrines which it most prominently teaches, the manner in which those doctrines are received and held by its individual members, and the whole of their religious character and state.

'The importance, therefore, of the external action in any Christian church, though it must be confined to its own proper sphere, can hardly, within that sphere, be exaggerated or too highly placed. Hence in every church, a due attention to its outward organization—its regulations, ceremonial, government, and polity in general— is intimately connected with its most vital interests, and can never with safety be omitted, or regarded as a matter of slight and trivial concern” (Jacob’s Ecc. Pol, pp. 18, 19).

"The correctness of these views will hardly be denied by anyone. But if admitted, they settle the question, whether our Saviour has left the form of church organization discretionary with his people.

"If any and all forms are not equally adapted to subserve the high ends for which churches are divinely instituted, then there is a form better adapted than others; and if there be one better adapted than another, the Saviour would surely not leave it to fallible human wisdom to find it out. When we consider the vastly important ends for which churches are instituted, and that these ends are vitally affected,—for good or evil, for progress or hindrance,—by the form of organization, we cannot believe that the Saviour left the apostles to their unassisted wisdom in the organization which they instituted.

"The antecedent improbability of such a thing is too great to allow us to believe this. He must, in some way, have given them divine guidance in this matter,—a matter so extremely important, as we have seen, and so entirely new to them and to all their previous training. Whether in the forty days that he was “seen of them,” and spake “of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God,” he then gave them personal directions, we cannot, of course, say. But we know that they received extraordinary endowments for their great mission. To found churches was a part, and a very important part, of their mission.

"We must believe, in view of the important bearing of the form of their organization upon the successful or unsuccessful accomplishment of the high ends of their institution, that they were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit in this matter, as well as in the enunciation of the doctrinal principles of Christianity: so that the polity instituted by them must be regarded as the expression of divine wisdom on this subject.

"The real question, then, seems to be this—Are we under obligation to adopt that polity which divine wisdom has pointed out to be the best adapted to promote the ends of church organization, or may we feel at liberty to change it or to substitute some other, according to our views of fitness and expediency?

"Such a question does not admit of debate."

 

I have never seen either of these two things in the Book;

1.) "The Holy Spirit is the baptizer",

2.) "(he who immerses)".

I have never seen this type of thing in the Book, either;

3.) (he who immerses) "each member into the body of Christ
at the moment they believe."

That makes 3 things right off the bat you mentioned,
as if they are in the Bible(?), I guess,

that I, for one, can not account for, in my understanding
of what I have read in there(?).

U?

Are they supposed to be taught from, or in, a verse, or something like that?

Ahhh...

4.) "But not only is he the baptizer in this sense
but he is also the means by whom
the Father in heaven baptizes those on earth."

& 5.) "The Father has baptized the whole world
and everyone in it with his Holy Ghost,

"when he poured him out from heaven in such abundance
that all who will believe him may receive him." (???)

"He did this in two stages according to the history we have in the Acts."

[ Are these going to be # 6.) & # 7.), maybe?]

Yep.

6.) "He baptized all of Israel in plain view on Pentecost
after Jesus had risen from the dead and ascended back to heaven."

7.) "Later he baptized the world."

Do you have some link to "a modern version of the bible"
that I am not aware of, where you are coming up with all this stuff?

1.) thru 7.), above?

Man.

Yeah. Praise the Lord God Almighty.

Salvation,

"he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;"

Titus 3:7 "That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
according to the hope of eternal life."

"by the washing of regeneration,
and renewing of the Holy Ghost"...

[ # 8.) ?] "He has made it possible for all of us to drink if we will."

"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:40.

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth,
but of God that sheweth mercy." Romans 9:16.

"But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on his name:

"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12, 13.


"according to his mercy he saved us..." Titus 3:5b.

 

While, tragically, defined in response to the O.P.,
"What do you Teach other men that "a Church is"?
or "What do Landmarks Teach men that "a Church is"?,
tersely, as nothing more than:

and then, in addition, the general overall reaction
to the initial explanations of "What a "church" is", being:

Jesus Built His kind of local "church" assembly, as His Divine Institution,
and Jesus' kind of local "church" assembly, as His Divine Institution,
is the only Divinly Authorized Institution on Earth,
which He Originated, Designed, and Instructed to Worship and Serve God.

The kind of "church" that Jesus was speaking about, in Matthew 16,
and that He said He would be "Edifying", "Modifying", and "Divinely Equipping"
to Serve and Worship God, as His, "church",
WHEN HE SAID THAT HE WAS BUILDING UPON HIMSELF,

and that Divine Institution which Jesus said He would continue to Build
and Structure from the Greek word, "ekklesia", He used,
has always maintained Jesus' intended meaning, as
"a local organized assembly summoned out to govern and rule".

Once Jesus Divinly Originated and Founded His local "church" assemblies,
like the kind of "churches" and church "bodies"
that we see all throughout The New Testament,

as well as the same kind of "churches" and church "bodies"
that Jesus also Promised to Sustain and Maintain, with Continual Perpetuity,
throughout all of the present The New Testament Age of Churches,
to be GOD'S DIVINE WITNESSES on EARTH, may be properly defined as:

"a congregation of Christ's baptized disciples,
acknowledging Him as their Head,
relying on His atoning sacrifice for justification before God,
depending on the Holy Spirit for sanctification,
united in the belief of the Gospel,
agreeing to maintain its ordinances and obey its precepts,
meeting together for worship,
and serving God for the advancement of The Cause of Christ
and The Kingdom of God in the world."

"The laws for the government of a church are given by Christ Himself in Matthew 18, and the word "church," which occurs more than one hundred times in the New Testament, means in practically all instances a local assembly of baptized believers, as outlined in the definition just set down.

"There are Baptist churches scattered throughout the world with a total of some ten million of communicants, but each one of these churches is an independent unit, governed by its membership as a pure democracy and maintaining the New Testament pattern in all their forms of worship.

"For instance, there was a church at Ephesus, a church at Corinth, there were the churches of Asia, and so on, but each one of these churches was independent in itself, answerable to no superior body because there was not and has not been such body, conducting its own affairs independently of all other ecclesiasticisms on earth.

"That is the Baptist view and polity today."

http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/cranfill.the.church.re-thinking.doctrine.html

So, we have the answer to the O.P., as being:

"The Lord's Church that He built that Jesus spoke of as being, "My church" is the only Divinely organized society among men. It was instituted for a purpose by Christ, who gave to it laws, and an economy of methods and order by which to accomplish its sacred mission, and who still retains headship and kingship over it.

"A Biblical Church is a 'Society of Jesus' in a truer and better sense than Loyala knew when founding the order of Jesuits. New Directory for Baptist Churches, pp. 44, 45."

"The assumption that the church is a mere human institution is the basis of this acceptance of any and every religious society as a New Testament church.

"But the Scriptures do not so teach. It becomes clear that the church Jesus Built is not a human, but a Divine Institution when we consider that:

1.) New Testament churches have a Divine Founder. All of the founders of this world's religions were nothing but mortal men; but this is not true of the church's Founder, of which we rea recorded in the Word of God; the Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ was manifested on numerous occasions and in numerous ways, as:

i.) By His miraculous birth, which proved that He was not an ordinary man,
(Isaiah 7:14; Jer. 31:22; Luke 1:26-35; Galatians 4:4; Heb. 2:9,14; 10:5).

ii.) By His extraordinary life, which was devoid of any sin,
(John 8:46; Heb. 4:15).

iii.) By the miracles which He performed,
(John 3:2; Acts 2:22).

iv.) By the resurrection from the grave,
(Acts 2:24; 29-31; Rom. 1:4).

v.) By the spoken attestation of God the Father,
(Matthew 3:17; John 12:28; Luke 9:35).

vi.) By the coming of the Holy Spirit,
(John 14:16; 16:13; Acts 2:1-4; 11: 15-17).

vii.) By the witness of men,
(Matthew 27:22-24; Luke 23:13-15; 46-47; Acts 17:2-3).

"The existence of the churches of The Lord Jesus Christ are the result of the Sovereign Will of the Divine Christ, and as such, it makes the kinds of churches Jusus Built to each be Divine Institutions.

"When He called out the apostles and disciples and constituted them into a body which He designated "my church," he gave the church the character of a divine institution that cannot be invalidated by the reasoning of carnal minds.

"Nor is this all; the fact that the churches were purchased with Christ's own blood, (Acts 20:28), gives it a Divine character also; it manifests God's great love for it.

"2.) Not only is Christ the Divine Founder of the churches, but He is also the Divine Foundation upon which the churches are built,
(1 Corinthians 3:11; Eph. 2:20; Matthew 16:18; Isa. 28:16).

"Here is a double guarantee of its endurance; not only is the Founder of the churches All-wise and All-powerful, but the Foundation is also stable and steadfast like a vast and immutable "rock".

3.) The Lord's Churches also have a Divine Builder, for the Lord says,

"Upon this Rock" (Himself), "I will build my church" (Matthew 16:18).

"This is also intimated in Ephesians 2:20,

"Being built," R.V., not "building yourselves."

"This is another reason why each church is to take care that she be always in complete subjection unto her Lord, for He is the builder, and

"Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it"
(Ps. 127:1).

4.) The churches of The Lord Jesus Christ, as we see described in The New Testament also a Divine Teacher, Guide and Comforter; in a word, it has a Divine Superintendent in the Almighty Person of God the Holy Spirit.

"This is declared in John 14:16-18: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

"And again, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you" (John 16:13-14).

"The Holy Spirit, as coming down to fill the place of the ascended Redeemer, has rightly been called 'The Vicar of Jesus Christ.' To Him, the entire Administration of the churches has been committed until the Lord shall return in glory. His oversight extends to the slightest detail in the ordering of God's house, holding all in subjection to the Will of the Head, and directing all in harmony with the Divine Plan."

"Since the Holy Spirit does have this great work within the Lord's churches, it may also be properly said that the Lord's churches are spiritual bodies; it is:

i.) Holy Spirit indwelled, (John 14:16; 20:22).

This is not to be confused
with the indwelling of individual believers, (Rom. 8:9).

ii.) Holy Spirit empowered, (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8).

iii.) Holy Spirit guided, (John 16:13).

iv.) Holy Spirit comforted and encouraged, (Rom. 8:11, 14-17).

con't: 5.) thru 7.)

 

5.) The Lord's churches that He built have divine material for their membership; this material is the host of sinners, saved by Grace, born again by the Spirit of God, which comprise each congregation.

The Divine Word on this is,
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God . . ." (1 John 3:2).

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." (1 John 3:1).

"And we know that we are of God,
and the whole world lieth in the evil one." (1 John 5:19, R.V.)

"When, therefore, we speak of "the material of the church",

we refer to "the membership", not to the physical building;

"This "material", then, is Divine because it has been
(virtually all, as the design and full intent) Regenerated,

and born again into The Kingdom and Family of God.

"Now, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners,
but fellow citizens with the saints,"
(born again into The Kingdom of God and Family of God),

"and of the household of God",
(members of one of the Lord's churches, like this one at Ephesus,
as a "household of God", being those who have been scripturally baptized
into "an organized assembly of baptized believers", etc.,
organized and that exists for the purpose of Glorifying God...")
(Eph. 2:19).

"This passage with its context declares
that man is dead and infinitely separated from God until salvation;

"When saved, an individual becomes a, "fellow citizen with the saints,"
(born again into The Kingdom of God, i.e., = all saved souls on Earth,
and Family of God, i.e., = all saved souls, of all time, in Heaven and on Earth).

"Their salvation, however,
does not make them a member of a church of any kind, at all;
they must be scripturally baptized into a church of The Lord Jesus Christ.


6.) The churches of The Lord Jesus Christ also have a Divine Mission and commission, which is briefly comprehended in this:

"Unto him (God) be glory in the church (like this one at Ephesus
and all other churches of like faith and order) by Christ Jesus
throughout all ages, world without end" (Eph. 3:21).

"The churches of The Lord Jesus Christ, as described in The Bible,

are always, "organized assemblies of baptized believers, etc.",

that exist for the purpose of Glorifying God..."

"The mission of the churches of The Lord Jesus Christ breaks down into several parts which we may briefly consider at this time.

"The Lord's kind of churches are to make known
"the Manifold Wisdom of God", (Eph. 3:10).

"This Divine Mission OF The Lord's kind of churches consists of:

"i.) Being witnesses unto the whole world, (Acts 1:8),
by preaching the gospel, (Mark 16:15).

"ii.) Making disciples of all nations by so preaching and witnessing,
(Matthew 28:19, R.V.)

"iii.) Scriptuarally Baptizing each new convert into the fellowship
and faith in a New Testament church.

"iv.) Teaching the converts to observe in a practical way,
all the things commanded by the Lord, (Matthew 28:20).

"v.) Edifying, exhorting, and comforting, and thereby strengthening
and perpetuating the Lord's churches as God's witness in the world,
(1 Corinthians 14:3,12).

7.) Also, ALL the churches like the kind in The New Testament that Jesus built and Promised to Sustain and Maintain, throughout all of The New Testament Age of Churches, to be GOD'S DIVINE WITNESSES of EARTH, have a Divine Message which is their duty to proclaim, and without which it cannot long remain a scriptural church.

"That message is the Bible, the Word of God,
the Divine revelation of God's Will for man.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

"that the man of God may be perfect,
thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ,
who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing
and his kingdom;

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;
"reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine"
(2 Timothy 3:16-17; 4:1-2).

"This passage states:

i.) The Word is given "by inspiration."

ii.) It is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction.

iii.) It is given that Christians may be thoroughly furnished
unto all good works.

iv.) Paul charged Timothy to "preach the word."

v.) The Word is to be put to all of its uses;
not one is to be ignored, (v. 2).
...

THEREFORE:

With a Divine Founder,
a Divine Foundation,
a Divine Builder,
a Divine Superintendent,
composed of Divine material,
with a Divine Mission
and a Divine Message,

by the Almighty Power, of All of The Attributes of God the Father,
under The Lordship of Christ's Headship,
and with the God the Holy Spirit's Superintendency,
and by their obedience to the regulations of the Eternal Word of God,

there is every reason to believe The churches of The Lord Jesus Christ
that He Divinely Originated and Commissioned,
during JESUS' FIRST ADVENT and MINISTRY on EARTH,

as those organized local church assemblies, being Divine Institutions
Jesus Built and Promised to be with, until He Comes Again,
at JESUS' SECOND ADVENT and RETURN to EARTH,

will continue to be on Earth, worshipping God, doing God's Will,
and to be Supernaturally and Spiritually Victorious,
as we may observe them to have been doing,
throughout The History of Christianity, since Jesus first Founded His
Divine "Organization and Living Organism", that Jesus called,
"My church".

Adapted from:
http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/huckabee.origin.nature.of.church.html

 

My idea would be that if you are going to teach
that "The church" is something, per the O.P.,
I would think that you might want the verses you quote
to include something within a million miles of the word "church" in them.

Make sense?

11 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God."
...

"The organizational aspect of the church has been denied by some in their zeal to establish the fact of the universal invisible church.

"It is often said that the church is not an organization, but an organism. However, the very word "organism" implies organization.

"There is no living organism so small or so simple but that it has organization about it; indeed, organization is an absolute necessity to life.

"We recognize that the church is an organism, that is, it is a living thing, but we must also recognize that it is an organization as well.

"This pitting of organism and organization against one another results from the desire of some to rid themselves of the local church and its attendant obligations and restraints, but this cannot be done.

"Those who so vehemently disclaim the church to be an organization would do well to consider that the supposed universal, invisible church is propagated and extended only on earth, and only in direct proportion to the number and faithfulness of earthly organizations.

"It is the local church that the Lord has commissioned to be His witnesses, to preach His word, to administer His ordinances, to teach His people, to guard the faith, to discipline its unruly members, and without the local church, Christianity would fail.

"The theoretical universal church can do none of these things."

(Of course.

Which may, 'of course' again, actually be the entire "purpose"
and "point" of all its 'spectacular' and 'magnificent', "nothingness"(?).

http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/huckabee.origin.nature.of.church.html

Adapted from:
http://baptisthistoryhomepage.com/huckabee.origin.nature.of.church.html

 

I can't come up with a reason
why you've quoted my post and then offer this as a reply(?)

U?