Is It Nothing to You?

[CJP69]

Christ in His perfect human nature died and rose again. Christ Jesus in His divine nature did not die.

It is precisely Christ's divinity that makes Him a qualified sacrifice.

I hope that you are not proclaiming that the Jews and the Romans actually killed Christ Jesus as almighty God in His divine nature.

That isn't just what I am saying, that is the very gospel itself.

Luke 23:34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” And they divided His garments and cast lots.​

Do you suppose that they had no idea that they were physically killing Jesus?

Of course they knew that! What they did not know that they were doing was committing deicide (the killing of God).


For clarity's sake, death is a separation. Physical death happens when one's soul/spirit separates from the body. Spiritual death happens when your soul/spirit is separated from the Father. Jesus died in both ways....

Christ's physical death...

Mark 15:37And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last. (incidentally , "spirit" and "breath" are often paralleled throughout the scripture - see Genesis 2:7)​

...happened shortly after His spiritual death...

Mark 15:34 and at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
​

 

[CJP69]

God is immutable. The Son is both the Son of God and God.

You live in a weird, self-contradictory, compartmentalized world.

If your doctrine doesn't have to make sense then why bother with even reading the bible or showing up here to debate it? Just believe whatever it is you want to believe and compartmentalize it away from anything that contradicts it and whenever anyone shows up to point out the contradictions simply blurt out whatever resides inside the appropriate compartment and ignore anything and everything else as though having done so has actually proven your point!

I couldn't live like that.

 

[CJP69]

@CJP69,
In order for God to be a cause He has to be mutable. In order to be God, God has to be immutable. That's why the Father uses the Lord Jesus Christ, per Ephesians 3:9, ". . . God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ."

Therefore, Jesus is not God!

That's by YOUR OWN REASONING!

 

[CJP69]

God cannot die. God became man but did not cease being God. That’s why Mary is not the Mother of God. She gave birth to Jesus the Man, not Jesus (God). God is eternal.

The Lord Jesus, as a man, could and did die and resurrect. Call it “hypostatic union” or not; me, I like simple words.

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, as of the only begotten of the Father. God the Son indwelt human flesh, and gave up His Spirit to the Father and the flesh became dead, as James states, “… the body without the spirit is dead.”

I agree that God the Son preexisted the incarnation but it is a dangerous overstatement to hold to the idea that "Jesus gave birth to Jesus the Man, not Jesus (God)".

In fact, that doctrine has been condemned as a heresy as early as 431 B.C. It's called Nestorianism and was condemned as a heresy during the Council in Ephesus.

Jesus was not two people. Jesus was BOTH God and man and still is to this day, by the way. When He became a man, he was still God and Mary gave birth to Him as both because He was both.

And for God dying. Dying is a separation. Just as one's spirit being separated from the body is physical death so having one's spirit separated from the Father is spiritual death. Thus, you state correctly that Jesus gave up His spirit and died physically but that didn't happen until shortly after He (Jesus) was separated from the Father....

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
​

Thus, Christ died in the normal sense of the word and went to the place of the righteous dead ("paradise" or "Abraham's Bosom") and rose not from the partially dead or the sort of dead but He rose from THE dead.

 

[37818]

Therefore, Jesus is not God!

That's by YOUR OWN REASONING!

No. It is your unBiblical reasoning. The Son of God has always been both the Son and God.

John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

 

[37818]

You live in a weird, self-contradictory, compartmentalized world.

If your doctrine doesn't have to make sense then why bother with even reading the bible or showing up here to debate it? Just believe whatever it is you want to believe and compartmentalize it away from anything that contradicts it and whenever anyone shows up to point out the contradictions simply blurt out whatever resides inside the appropriate compartment and ignore anything and everything else as though having done so has actually proven your point!

I couldn't live like that.

You have the problem. There is only the one LORD God. And there are three distinct Persons who are the very same God. And one Person in Trinity of Presons is also now both an immortal man and God. He was always God but not always a man.

 

[CJP69]

No. It is your unBiblical reasoning.

Whatever. Your post is still right there for the whole world to read!

The Son of God has always been both the Son and God.

John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?​

 

[CJP69]

You have the problem. There is only the one LORD God. And there are three distinct Persons who are the very same God. And one Person in Trinity of Presons is also now both an immortal man and God. He was always God but not always a man.

Where did I ever say a thing that contradicted any of this?

 

[MrW]

I agree that God the Son preexisted the incarnation but it is a dangerous overstatement to hold to the idea that "Jesus gave birth to Jesus the Man, not Jesus (God)".

In fact, that doctrine has been condemned as a heresy as early as 431 B.C. It's called Nestorianism and was condemned as a heresy during the Council in Ephesus.

Jesus was not two people. Jesus was BOTH God and man and still is to this day, by the way. When He became a man, he was still God and Mary gave birth to Him as both because He was both.

And for God dying. Dying is a separation. Just as one's spirit being separated from the body is physical death so having one's spirit separated from the Father is spiritual death. Thus, you state correctly that Jesus gave up His spirit and died physically but that didn't happen until shortly after He (Jesus) was separated from the Father....

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
​

Thus, Christ died in the normal sense of the word and went to the place of the righteous dead ("paradise" or "Abraham's Bosom") and rose not from the partially dead or the sort of dead but He rose from THE dead.

No, it’s not an overstatement. It’s truth. The Son was God before He was in Mary’s womb, but He was not flesh (man) before then.

He remained God because He was already God. She did not bring forth God, as in procreating God. In fact, the Lord Jesus created everything. She brought forth the pre-existing God, in the flesh, the man. God cannot die—the Lord Jesus died. How? Because He willingly laid aside His prerogatives and became a man (Philippians 2). I did not say He “quit” being God. He is always God but God did not always have a human body (“A body Thou hast prepared Me”).

Sin came by man. Therefore, salvation also came by man, because God took on human flesh and died and resurrected as a man.

 

[37818]

Whatever. Your post is still right there for the whole world to read!

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?​

Acts of the Apostles 13:33, ". . . God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. . . . "

Colossians 1:18, ". . . he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; . . ."

 

[MrW]

After posting, I looked up “hypostatic union”. It says what I tried to say.


QUESTION
What is the hypostatic union?

ANSWER
The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus’ two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus’ humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6, 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus’ actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as human beings with finite minds, should not expect to totally comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1, 14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being in order to identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever.

gotquestions.org

 

[37818]

After posting, I looked up “hypostatic union”. It says what I tried to say.


QUESTION
What is the hypostatic union?

ANSWER
The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus’ two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus’ humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6, 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus’ actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.

The doctrine of the hypostatic union is an attempt to explain how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. It is ultimately, though, a doctrine we are incapable of fully understanding. It is impossible for us to fully understand how God works. We, as human beings with finite minds, should not expect to totally comprehend an infinite God. Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). But that does not mean Jesus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1, 14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being in order to identify with us in our struggles (Hebrews 2:17) and, more importantly, so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Philippians 2:5-11). In summary, the hypostatic union teaches that Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that there is no mixture or dilution of either nature, and that He is one united Person, forever.

gotquestions.org

The Greek phrase "προς τον θεον" is used in the New Testament 20 times with someone other than God with God in some way.

Here are 17 of the references:
Acts of the Apostles 4:24
Acts of the Apostles 12:5
Acts of the Apostles 24:16
Romans 4:2
Romans 5:1
Romans 10:1
Romans 15:30
2 Corinthians 3:4
2 Corinthians 13:7
Philippians 4:6
1 Thessalonians 1:8
1 Thessalonians 1:9
Hebrews 2:17
Hebrews 5:1
1 John 3:21
Revelation 12:5
Revelation 13:6

 

[MrW]

The Greek phrase "προς τον θεον" is used in the New Testament 20 times with someone other than God with God in some way.

It’s Greek to me.

 

[MrW]

I looked up "προς τον θεον" in three different Greek to English translators and all three rendered it "to God".

 

[37818]

Where did I ever say a thing that contradicted any of this?

You live in a weird, self-contradictory, compartmentalized world.

If your doctrine doesn't have to make sense then why bother with even reading the bible or showing up here to debate it? Just believe whatever it is you want to believe and compartmentalize it away from anything that contradicts it and whenever anyone shows up to point out the contradictions simply blurt out whatever resides inside the appropriate compartment and ignore anything and everything else as though having done so has actually proven your point!

I couldn't live like that.

 

[37818]

I looked up "προς τον θεον" in three different Greek to English translators and all three rendered it "to God".

As in John 13:3

I added 17 of the 20 cases
Is It Nothing to You?

 

[KenH]

The people of God who are the subject of the prophesies in these psalms are not the elect as you as a Calvinist would define the elect.

"This signifies the set time of love and life to every particular soul at conversion; which is a day for light, and a day of power; when the exceeding greatness of the power of God is put forth in the regeneration of them: and the people that were given to Christ by his Father, in the covenant of grace, and who, while in a state of nature, are rebellious and unwilling, are made willing to be saved by Christ, and him only; to serve him in every religious duty and ordinance; to part with their sins and sinful companions, and with their own righteousness; to suffer the loss of all things for him; to deny themselves, and take up the cross and follow him: and when they become freewill offerings to him, as the word signifies; not only willingly offer up their spiritual sacrifices of prayer and praise, but themselves, souls and bodies, to him; as well as enter volunteers into his service, and cheerfully fight his battles, under him, the Captain of their salvation; being assured of victory, and certain of the crown of life and glory, when they have fought the good fight, and finished their course."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Psalms 110:3


Numberless beauties appear, in this verse, like the constellations of the heavenly borders, to call upon our notice. First, the promise made concerning the people of Christ. Here we find that Christ had a people, a church, a seed, an offspring, before his incarnation: and hence, not only at his birth, but even before his conception, his name was called Jesus, because he should save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21; Psalms 89:3-4; Isaiah 44:3; Isaiah 59:21. Secondly, God the Father promiseth that this people shall be a willing people; a people of willingness, as it might be rendered; volunteers, listing under Christ's banner. When Jesus is set up as an ensign to the nations, the Gentiles shall seek to it, and his rest shall be glorious, Isaiah 11:10. ... Thirdly, God's promise is, that all these blessings shall take place in the day of Christ's power. The sovereignty of grace, and the influence of his Spirit, which accompanieth his word, shall make it effectual; so that it shall not return void, but like the rain and the snow, which cometh down from heaven, shall give gracious influences; Isaiah 55:10-11. And it is beautiful to remark how variously this day of Christ's power is spoken of in scripture, so as to point out the blessed properties of it: A day of espousals of the soul to Christ, Song of Solomon 3:11. A day of salvation, 2 Corinthians 6:2; hence when Christ made the publican Zaccheus willing in the day of his power, he said, This day is salvation come to this house; Luke 19:9; and a day of the Lord's making and marvellous in our eyes, Psalms 118:24.

- excerpt from Robert Hawker's The Poor Man's Commentary on Psalms 110:3

 

[KenH]

The people of God who are the subject of the prophesies in these psalms are not the elect

The entire Bible is ALL about CHRIST and His work of salvation as the Surety for God's elect given to Him before the world began.

Ancient Israel served two purposes - to show that fallen man cannot be keep the law perfectly and be saved in doing so, and to be the means whereby God brought His Son into the world in a flawless human body in which He would keep the law perfectly, establish a perfect righteousness to be imputed to God's elect, and die for all of the sins(which were imputed to Him) of those given to Him to be their Surety before the world began.

And after 40 years of transition, ancient Israel came to an end in 70 A.D. Period. That country called Israel that exists today is not the same as ancient Israel in the Bible, except in name only.

For further reading, an article entitled, "MOSES OR CHRIST? Paul’s Reply to Dispensational Error" By Charles D. Alexander, can be found here:

Microsoft Word - MOSES OR CHRIST _C. D. Alexander_.docx (wsimg.com)

 

[KenH]

the killing of God

If almighty God died, then everything would cease to exist. There is nothing Biblical nor Christian in your claim that God Himself was killed, that God Himself died. It was Jesus' flawless human body in which He had established a perfect righteousness to be imputed to all of God's elect, chosen before the world began, that died on the cross and rose again on the third day.

 

[Silverhair]

As in John 13:3

I added 17 of the 20 cases
Is It Nothing to You?

What point are you trying make with this list?

The NKJV translates the phrase various ways
Act_12:5 to G4314 God G2316
Act_24:16 toward G4314 God G2316
Rom_4:2 before G4314 God G2316
Heb_2:17 in things pertaining to G4314 God G2316

and even
Rev_13:6 against G4314 God G2316