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Featured John Calvin vs Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 11, 2024.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well then I stand correct if it has that caviat, “All the Father gave Him.”
     
    #141 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2024
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Did you hear the one about the Baptist who walked in a bar....:Biggrin
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    A priest, a baptist and a rabbi walk into a bar and start getting sloshed.

    They decide that they need to test their faith to see which one is the best. They decide the ultimate challenge is to see if they can convert a bear.

    So the next day they all go out into the wood to try and meet up again at the bar that night.

    The priest comes in with a broken arm and scratches all over his body and smilingly says: "I had to run around the bear and read him the entire Bible but he saw the light and he was converted."

    The baptist is on crutches with two broken legs and a broken arm and his head all bandaged. He says: "I had to wrestle that bear to the ground and baptize him in the stream but he saw the light and he was converted, hallelujah!"

    Then the Rabbi gets wheeled in in a full body cast. He says: "Ya know, in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have started with circumcision.

    You asked Jon... Brother Glen:D
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    A direct question deserves an equally direct answer.

    I do not equate Christ dying for mankind as universal salvation. I do not believe that Christ died for all mankind (every person without exception) but rather, I believe that Christ died to achieve the result seen in Revelation 5:9-10 [a great multitude from every tribe, language, people, and nation] … all mankind (SOME from every people group without distinction).

    Ultimately, I AM a Particular Baptist (not a General Baptist) and I believe that, as Spurgeon described it, God did not build a bridge wide enough for the whole world that spans only half way to salvation, but built a narrow bridge - just enough to fit “whosoever believes” [John 3:16] - that carries us all the way from “dead in your offenses and sins” [Ephesians 2:1-3] to “these whom He justified, He also glorified” [Romans 8:29-30].

    Universal Salvation is merely a logical conclusion of a simple argument:
    • We are saved by the blood of Jesus.
    • Jesus died to save EVERYONE (no exceptions) … or so the argument is made by others.
    • [logical conclusion] … then EVERYONE should be saved, right?
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Please correct me if I have misunderstood, but it appears that you are arguing that Christ’s death was for EVERYONE (all persons without exception) and obtained for them/us nothing more and nothing less (through His death) than “resurrection to stand judgement”. We all (saints and sinners) get a “get out of Sheol” card … this allows us (saints and sinners) to move on to an ETERNAL DESTINY which is determined by something OTHER THAN the simple fact of Christ’s death.

    Is that accurate?
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    At least this is a start. You do not equate Christ dying for all man as meaning eternal salvation. That leaves us room for discussion.

    Your logical conclusion is correct, however there is an error prior to the conclusion. I put the mistake in bold. There is also a term that needs fleshing out. As it stands the meaning is ambiguous. I will underline that part.

    • We are saved by the blood of Jesus.
    • Jesus died to save EVERYONE (no exceptions) … or so the argument is made by others.
    • [logical conclusion] … then EVERYONE should be saved, right?

    First the mistake.
    I never argued that Jesus died to save every person.
    That is just a simple error, but it plays into your conclusion.

    The next part is probably more involved.

    You said "We are saved by the blood of Jesus". You rightly pointed out the problems associated with using words and phrases like "codes". Please explain specifically what you mean by "we are saved by the blood of Christ".
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Due to the length of this thread it is closed.

    Please feel free continue by starting another thread.

    @atpollard ,

    I have started another to continue our discussion.

    Christ died for all man
     
  8. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but I can't on that machine. I do know I can on this one.
    But it is kind of you to point it out. Thank you.
     
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