Faith is the result of Election !

[Brightfame52]

the scripture you provided does not support your position BF.

Yes it does

 

[Brightfame52]

So now that I have asked you three times to answer this question, perhaps you can stop avoiding it and answer it.

Let's try again.
BF are you unable to answer the question or are you just afraid of the truth?

Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

I provided scripture and you don't believe

 

[Van]

Election took place before we existed

Yes, our corporate election, for when God chose Logos to be His redeemer, He chose corporately all the believers Christ would save.

 

[Van]

@Van faith can be neither righteous nor unrighteous.

In Christianity faith is trust in, loyalty and or commitment to the risen Son of God. The person that expresses such is accounted as righteous because they believe. Faith is the reason they are accounted as righteous.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Rom 4:5 "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness," The believer is accounted as righteous because he believes.Van your logic is flawed, the person not their faith is what is accounted as righteous.

As for soils 2 & 3 it does not say they did not believe it shows they did not have depth of faith. Big difference.

It seems you are making the assumption that once a person trusts in Christ they will never fall away. Is that a correct understanding of your position?

You are making no effort to grasp that God credits the faith of those He redeems as righteousness. Instead you claim, or seem to claim faith cannot be credited as righteousness.

I am making no assumption, once a person is spiritually transferred into Christ, based on God crediting their faith as righteousness, they are saved forever. OSAS. Faith lacking deep commitment and overriding priority will not be credited as righteous faith as indicated by the illustrations of Soils 2 and 3.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, our corporate election, for when God chose Logos to be His redeemer, He chose corporately all the believers Christ would save.

Corporate is nothing more than an arrangement , gathering, aggregating of particular Individuals. Each of them will believe in Christ because of their election in Him before time began

 

[Brightfame52]

The man or women for whom God has chosen, and Christ died for, shall be caused to come to God in Faith Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

 

[JD731]

The man or women for whom God has chosen, and Christ died for, shall be caused to come to God in Faith Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

I am not a betting man but if I were, I would be willing to bet the farm that verse 4 of Psalm 65 is the only verse in the whole psalm that you are willing to take literally. Here is the Psalm in it's totality;

Psa 65:1 Praise waiteth for thee, O God, in Sion: and unto thee shall the vow be performed.

2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
3 Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.
4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
5 By terrible things in righteousness wilt thou answer us, O God of our salvation; who art the confidence of all the ends of the earth, and of them that are afar off upon the sea:
6 Which by his strength setteth fast the mountains; being girded with power:
7 Which stilleth the noise of the seas, the noise of their waves, and the tumult of the people.
8 They also that dwell in the uttermost parts are afraid at thy tokens: thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice.
9 Thou visitest the earth, and waterest it: thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water: thou preparest them corn, when thou hast so provided for it.
10 Thou waterest the ridges thereof abundantly: thou settlest the furrows thereof: thou makest it soft with showers: thou blessest the springing thereof.
11 Thou crownest the year with thy goodness; and thy paths drop fatness.
12 They drop upon the pastures of the wilderness: and the little hills rejoice on every side.
13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing.

The is a millennial song when our Lord dwells in Sion in his holy temple which is the location of his throne. You have never seen an earth like is described here.Verse 4 is not a choice of who he will save but of saved ones who will approach him and dwell in his courts.

It is improper to just reach into a passage and corrupt context for your own teaching. The man who does this will definitely not be a choice of Psa 65:4.

 

[Silverhair]

I provided scripture and you don't believe

BF you have started, what, 10 threads on the atonement and you are afraid to respond to the question. You have put yourself out there as one that has this great biblical insight so it should be easy for you to give an answer to this question.

Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

Saying you provided scripture does not answer the question that just avoids doing so. If you are unable or unwilling to answer it then just say so.

 

[Van]

Corporate is nothing more than an arrangement , gathering, aggregating of particular Individuals. Each of them will believe in Christ because of their election in Him before time began

It seems a corporate election is beyond your definition. For the umpteenth time, when a plan is developed, say a plan to evacuate soldiers from Dunkirk, the target group, stranded soldiers, is simply a group comprised on some common characteristic or characteristics. God's redemption plan was for those He would determine were believers. Pretty simple concept.

 

[Silverhair]

You are making no effort to grasp that God credits the faith of those He redeems as righteousness. Instead you claim, or seem to claim faith cannot be credited as righteousness.

I am making no assumption, once a person is spiritually transferred into Christ, based on God crediting their faith as righteousness, they are saved forever. OSAS. Faith lacking deep commitment and overriding priority will not be credited as righteous faith as indicated by the illustrations of Soils 2 and 3.

I have said and the bible tells us that the person who has faith is regarded as righteous by God. Faith is not righteous or unrighteous.

Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Php 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Van if a person is accounted as righteous through faith it happens at the time they believe.
Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith,..." does not say that once your concluded your probation period you will be accounted as righteous does it?

Those of the 2nd & 3rd soils were saved and showed they had no depth of faith when they later rejected that faith. Read Mat 13:20-22

 

[Van]

I have said and the bible tells us that the person who has faith is regarded as righteous by God. Faith is not righteous or unrighteous.

Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Php 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Van if a person is accounted as righteous through faith it happens at the time they believe.
Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith,..." does not say that once your concluded your probation period you will be accounted as righteous does it?

Those of the 2nd & 3rd soils were saved and showed they had no depth of faith when they later rejected that faith. Read Mat 13:20-22

Once again, you do not address what I presented, but present arguments for another view.

We are made righteous through or by means of our faith when and if God credits that faith as righteousness.

Again scripture clearly says Abraham's faith not Abraham the person was credited as righteousness.

The second and third soils were never saved, as the fell away from the faith.

 

[Silverhair]

The man or women for whom God has chosen, and Christ died for, shall be caused to come to God in Faith Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Remember that I keep telling you to look at context BF.

Well what does the context show us

Psa 65:2 O You who hear prayer, To You all flesh will come.

Are you suggesting that salvation is universal, that all will be saved. That seems to be what you are doing when you use vs 4 to support your theological view.

But since we know that universal salvation is not true that means your understanding of vs 4 is not correct. Once again you have grabbed a verse that you think supports you and context shows your error.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you have started, what, 10 threads on the atonement and you are afraid to respond to the question. You have put yourself out there as one that has this great biblical insight so it should be easy for you to give an answer to this question.

Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

Saying you provided scripture does not answer the question that just avoids doing so. If you are unable or unwilling to answer it then just say so.

Again I provided scripture proof, you cant receive it.

 

[Brightfame52]

It seems a corporate election is beyond your definition. For the umpteenth time, when a plan is developed, say a plan to evacuate soldiers from Dunkirk, the target group, stranded soldiers, is simply a group comprised on some common characteristic or characteristics. God's redemption plan was for those He would determine were believers. Pretty simple concept.

God chose a multitude of individuals in Christ before the foundation, that's pretty simple

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, you do not address what I presented, but present arguments for another view.

We are made righteous through or by means of our faith when and if God credits that faith as righteousness.

Again scripture clearly says Abraham's faith not Abraham the person was credited as righteousness.

The second and third soils were never saved, as the fell away from the faith.

Van I am addressing what you wrote, I am showing that your view is not what thew bible tells us. What do you not understand about these words?
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Faith is a concept it is neither righteous nor unrighteous, the result of that faith is, as you said, "We are made righteous through or by means of our faith" you just go to far when you add "when and if God credits that faith as righteousness"

"The second and third soils were never saved, as the fell away from the faith" Van the bible tells us we are saved through faith and the only way to fall away from something is if you were actually there in the first place. And you agreed that they had faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, There is no probationary period for salvation, you are either saved or you are not. Those of the 2nd & 3rd soils were saved. That is unless you think Christ got it wrong?

 

[Brightfame52]

Remember that I keep telling you to look at context BF.

Well what does the context show us

Psa 65:2 O You who hear prayer, To You all flesh will come.

Are you suggesting that salvation is universal, that all will be saved. That seems to be what you are doing when you use vs 4 to support your theological view.

But since we know that universal salvation is not true that means your understanding of vs 4 is not correct. Once again you have grabbed a verse that you think supports you and context shows your error.

Those whom God has chosen in Christ before time, will be given Faith in Him to come to Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Silverhair]

Again I provided scripture proof, you cant receive it.

So you just avoid the question.

Let's try this one. Is God sovereign? Now surely you can answer that one.

If you agree that God is sovereign, as I am sure you must, then you have to agree that Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

 

[Van]

God chose a multitude of individuals in Christ before the foundation, that's pretty simple

Except that scripture says were were chosen through or by means of faith, not foreseen faith of foreseen individual in the foreseen future. When an individual is chosen for salvation, he or she has received mercy because all have fallen short of the glory of God. However, those chosen lived for a time without mercy, thus precluding individual election before the foundation of the world.

 

[Van]

Van I am addressing what you wrote, I am showing that your view is not what thew bible tells us. What do you not understand about these words?
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Faith is a concept it is neither righteous nor unrighteous, the result of that faith is, as you said, "We are made righteous through or by means of our faith" you just go to far when you add "when and if God credits that faith as righteousness"

"The second and third soils were never saved, as the fell away from the faith" Van the bible tells us we are saved through faith and the only way to fall away from something is if you were actually there in the first place. And you agreed that they had faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, There is no probationary period for salvation, you are either saved or you are not. Those of the 2nd & 3rd soils were saved. That is unless you think Christ got it wrong?

It is a waste of time to continue. You said faith is a concept that is neither righteous nor unrighteous. Scripture says God credits faith as righteousness.
It is not going too far to say "when and if God credits that faith as righteousness." To claim God credits everyone's faith, such as Judas, as righteousness if nonsense.

LOL, falling away from "the faith" is not falling away from being saved, but falling away from professing uncredited faith, such as Judas and soils 2&3.

 

[Brightfame52]

So you just avoid the question.

Let's try this one. Is God sovereign? Now surely you can answer that one.

If you agree that God is sovereign, as I am sure you must, then you have to agree that Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?

Im here to testify with scripture that faith is the result of election.