Was Jesus truly flesh (with desires of the flesh)?

[Silverhair]

I do agree that some of the language that we have and use, even in our Bible translations, can be a problem, in trying to describe what really cannot be easily.

My main point being, that Jesus Christ as God knew fully what going to the Cross meant, as He had planned it from eternity past. He did not want to get way from what He had to do, His "human nature" felt the force of things more.

Yes that is what I see in the text also.

 

[canadyjd]

A few problems that I can see with your post. You are making your comments while ignoring scripture…..

You ask if it is possible for anyone to be saved without hearing the gospel of Christ Jesus. The biblical answer is, YES. Have you not read Heb 11, what has been called the Hall of Faith. Correct me if I am wrong but none of those mentioned heard the gospel of Christ Jesus did they?….

I will correct you because you are wrong. You are in error because you do not know or understand scripture.

Hebrews 11:1 ..faith is the substance of things hope for… things not seen”

Hebrews 11:2 through Hebrews 11:38 is the record of all those OT saints who had faith in the promises of God concerning His coming Messiah. We know this is true because of v. 39.

Hebrews 11:39 “and these, having obtained a good report did not receive the promises… that they would not be made perfect without us”

They were “not made perfect without us”. What does that mean? That means they are saved exactly how we are. They had faith in the promise of God concerning His Messiah. We obtained the substance in that Jesus came and died in a cross for our sin and theirs.

In that way, we are all (OT and NT) made perfect together, by faith in Jesus.

Jesus told the Pharisees that Abraham saw His day and was glad. Do you understand that? You claimed no OT saint heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Himself proves your error.

No one is saved apart from faith in Jesus. To deny that truth makes a mockery of His suffering and death.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

I will correct you because you are wrong. You are in error because you do not know or understand scripture.

Hebrews 11:1 ..faith is the substance of things hope for… things not seen”

Hebrews 11:2 through Hebrews 11:38 is the record of all those OT saints who had faith in the promises of God concerning His coming Messiah. We know this is true because of v. 39.

Hebrews 11:39 “and these, having obtained a good report did not receive the promises… that they would not be made perfect without us”

They were “not made perfect without us”. What does that mean? That means they are saved exactly how we are. They had faith in the promise of God concerning His Messiah. We obtained the substance in that Jesus came and died in a cross for our sin and theirs.

In that way, we are all (OT and NT) made perfect together, by faith in Jesus.

Jesus told the Pharisees that Abraham saw His day and was glad. Do you understand that? You claimed no OT saint heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Himself proves your error.

No one is saved apart from faith in Jesus. To deny that truth makes a mockery of His suffering and death.

peace to you

Actually you are reading onto the text what you need to see. It is not the name Jesus that saves it is God. The OT saints trusted in the living God and believed His promises of a coming Messiah/redeemer.

Did Christ not cover all sin for humanity, past present and future, when He went to the cross: The bible say He did 1Jn 2:2.

Abel’s sacrifice, Enoch’s daily life and Noah’s obedience all pleased God because they arose out of faith. These men trusted in the unseen God and in his faithfulness to those who wholeheartedly sought him.
Abraham’s faith caused him to set out for a promised, yet unknown, earthly inheritance.
When God told Abraham to offer up his son Isaac, Abraham’s faith was tested. But he had faith to obey, believing that God could bring Isaac back to life.
Isaac, Jacob and Joseph were all certain that the promise to Abraham would be fulfilled.
And the list could go on. We can include the Israelites who through faith in the living God marked their door posts so that the death angel would Passover.

Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Were those that trusted in the living God not saved? Were they not accounted as righteous?
Rom_4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

For some reason you want to limit the power of God to save those that seek Him?
Deu 4:29 "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1Ti_4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

 

[canadyjd]

Actually you are reading onto the text what you need to see. It is not the name Jesus that saves it is God. The OT saints trusted in the living God and believed His promises of a coming Messiah/redeemer.

Did Christ not cover all sin for humanity, past present and future, when He went to the cross: The bible say He did 1Jn 2:2.

Abel’s sacrifice, Enoch’s daily life and Noah’s obedience all pleased God because they arose out of faith. These men trusted in the unseen God and in his faithfulness to those who wholeheartedly sought him.
Abraham’s faith caused him to set out for a promised, yet unknown, earthly inheritance.
When God told Abraham to offer up his son Isaac, Abraham’s faith was tested. But he had faith to obey, believing that God could bring Isaac back to life.
Isaac, Jacob and Joseph were all certain that the promise to Abraham would be fulfilled.
And the list could go on. We can include the Israelites who through faith in the living God marked their door posts so that the death angel would Passover.

Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Were those that trusted in the living God not saved? Were they not accounted as righteous?
Rom_4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

For some reason you want to limit the power of God to save those that seek Him?
Deu 4:29 "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1Ti_4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Like I said, you don’t understand scripture. To believe anyone is saved apart from faith in Jesus makes a mockery of His sacrifice.

You are unable to comprehend the truth that there is no other name in heaven or on earth by which one must be saved.

All done now

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

Like I said, you don’t understand scripture. To believe anyone is saved apart from faith in Jesus makes a mockery of His sacrifice.

You are unable to comprehend the truth that there is no other name in heaven or on earth by which one must be saved.

All done now

peace to you

And you apparently do not comprehend the sovereignty of God. You need God to fit into your personal view. One is not saved by a name, they are saved by God. That should not be to hard a concept for you to grasp.

 

[Van]

Luke 22:41–44 And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.


Did Jesus ask God that if possible to remove the cup and submit His will to the will of the Father?

My answer is yes. Jesus did not desire to suffer, to be nailed to a cross, and die. But He did desire to do the will of the Father.

This passage demonstrates the struggle of the flesh. Scripture tells us that Jesus is human, that Jesus experienced temptations as is common to man. But Jesus submitted the will of the flesh to the will of God. He did not sin.


@SavedByGrace offers a different view - that Jesus was not actually praying "not My will butvYours be done" but was offering an example.

So the issue is not whether Jesus was human and experienced the "desires of the flesh" which when in opposition to the will of God, were temptations, such as those He experienced in the wilderness.. That view would seem to be basic Christianity. No, the issue as framed by "SavedbyGrace" is: was Jesus referring to His fleshly desires as "My will?" I think so, as it is not sin to experience temptation, the sin occurs when we give into it.

 

[JonC]

So the issue is not whether Jesus was human and experienced the "desires of the flesh" which when in opposition to the will of God, were temptations, such as those He experienced in the wilderness.. That view would seem to be basic Christianity. No, the issue as framed by "SavedbyGrace" is: was Jesus referring to His fleshly desires as "My will?" I think so, as it is not sin to experience temptation, the sin occurs when we give into it.

I agree.

We also have to recognize the difficulty that comes about when we divide Jesus' nature and will. We venture into heresy (into an unorthodox view of Christ).

When we desire something selfishly and according to the flesh we often also desire not to do that thing.

Are we using two wills? I'm not sure. But we should set our minds on the things of the Spirit and submit our will for the things of the flesh to God.


For example, I may want to speed on my way to work. But I also want to obey God and therefore want to obey these laws.

Is my will to speed my fleshly desire and my will to obey God my spiritual desire? Probably. But I can't separate them from my will in general.

 

[MrW]

Was Jesus truly flesh

Bible says He was made flesh (yet without sin).