Featured Concerning Romans 9:16

Only after the sinner repents of their sins and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and the Gospel concerning Him

"election to salvation" based on "faith alone", is a "reformed" teaching that is based on their "teachings", and has no Bible foundation!

 

Yes I know you keep saying that Romans 9 supports your beliefs but you have not shown any verses that actually do that. Using a shotgun approach does not help.

You keep saying "Election comes before faith" I asked you to give a clear definition of what you mean by the word "election". I only asked as we have seen instances of calvinists adding their own meaning to words. So clarity on your part would help.

 

So God created certain people to be vessels of wrath, and damned them to eternal punishment?

 

Why do posters post such non-sense. First the actual "Reformed" false doctrine is people were chosen unconditionally, then faith was instilled via irresistible grace. And yes, the actual "Reformed false doctrine" has no Biblical foundation.

The actual "Reformed" false doctrine is that the lost are not able to will to be saved because of their total spiritual inability, the "T" of the TULIP. And of course, Romans 9:16 teaches the exact opposite, the lost can will and take action to be saved in accordance with the gospel of Christ.

 

Actually what the text says is the God has mercy or compassion but does not tell us why He does.

Rom 9:15 ... "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

God is not arbitrary He is perfectly rational and thus always acts for a reason.

God’s plan shows {His reason} His merciful love for His creation. Knowing there is nothing we can do to earn our way into His presence, He made a way for us to know Him, whether through creation, conviction of the Holy Spirit or the gospel message. {Rom 1:16} Those that respond in a positive way to the promptings of God can know Him and be known by Him.

 

Exactly what are you on about

 

What completely rubbish!

God creates some as vessels of wrath who are hell bound, and then is LONGSUFFERING towards them!

This makes God to be not sure what He is doing

 

TOTALLY UNBIBLICAL

 

What is intellectually dishonest is for you to claim that Rom 9 supports your view.

Calvinist scholar John Feinberg admits:
“If Calvinists are right about divine sovereignty, there seems to be little room for human freedom. If freedom goes, so does human moral responsibility for sin. Worst of all, if Calvinists are right, it appears that God decides that there will be sin and evil in our world, maybe even brings it about that there is such evil, and yet, according to Calvinists, is not morally responsible for any of it.

If this is Calvinism’s God, Calvinism seems not only intellectually but also religiously bankrupt. Who would worship this God? Moreover, if atheists understand this portrait of God as paradigmatic of traditional Christianity, no wonder they are repulsed by Christianity.”
John S. Feinberg, “God, Freedom, and Evil in Calvinist Thinking.”

 

While we disagree I have always found Candyjd to be genuine and honest. I think it is over the top to suggest anything else about them. Simply disagreeing or even possibly being wrong in no way imposes the idea that one is being intellectually dishonest.

 

The doctrinal distinctive's of Reformed Theology cannot be reconciled with what we know about God from His holy Word. Scripture has taught me to believe that God is loving and absolutely just. Could and would such a God allow a man to be born who has no possibility to be saved? Would the God of love and Scripture have me tantalize unsavable men with the offer of salvation? Would the God of all hope punish a man for all eternity for rejecting the offer of salvation, if that man was decreed by God to reject that salvation in the first place?

If Calvinism is true, Christ did nothing of redemptive value for the non-elect. Why are we commanded to preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15)? If Calvinism is true, and I affirm to a man that Jesus loves him and died on the cross to redeem him from his sins, I may be offering nothing more than a false hope. If I urge men to receive Jesus as their Lord that they might be saved, would this not be nothing more than a cruel tease for many of those to whom I speak (Acts 2:36–39)? Why would the God of all truth, who speaks so sternly against lying, send His servants out to promote such a lie?

If a man is ordained by God to be saved, with no real responsibility on his part, then why spend time and resources seeking to bring the gospel to the world?

If they have been predestined to be irrevocably lost, then it is cruel to hold out to them the hope of the gospel.

How can you declare that God is love, if He has unconditionally destined men to the eternal torment of hell?

Following the logic of Calvinism a man’s “faith” in Jesus Christ has nothing to do with getting saved. In stark contrast, when our Lord was asked, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus responded, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." (John 6:28–29 NKJV). When the Philippian jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Paul and Silas said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,…” (Acts 16:30–31 NKJV).

Chuck Smith
Senior Pastor, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa

 

If @canadyjd can say that the scriptures support his calvinist view when they clearly do not that is being intellectually dishonest. He may be sincere in his beliefs but he is sincerely wrong. I understand that he wants to defend the position he holds but do you not think it is our duty, as a Christian, to point out the errors of his view?

I am not questioning his faith or salvation just his misuse of scripture.

The God we see in the bible that loves His creation and desires all to come to salvation has been turned into a God of power and control by calvinism. The God of calvinism only wants a few to be saved and has decreed for the vast majority of humanity to have zero hope of redemption. Even the sin for which God will judge them has been decreed by the calvinist God.

Calvinists prefer to talk about election, but the other side of unconditional election is a very troubling and unscriptural doctrine of unconditional reprobation.

 

Truth, justice and the Christian way!

First the actual "Reformed" false doctrine is people were chosen unconditionally, then faith was instilled via irresistible grace. And yes, the actual "Reformed false doctrine" has no Biblical foundation.

The actual "Reformed" false doctrine is that the lost are not able to will to be saved because of their total spiritual inability, the "T" of the TULIP. And of course, Romans 9:16 teaches the exact opposite, the lost can will and take action to be saved in accordance with the gospel of Christ.