Featured Problem of there being an actual crucifixion date.

I am sure we both understand Mark 15:42 insofar as what the passage actually teaches.

You presented a theory and asked for others to challenge it. I did.

You do not understand the passage insofar as what it isn't teaching. You also do not appear to know your history.

The Jews stopped using the Biblical calendar (the lunisolar calendar by observation/ messenger). One reason give was opposition that made observation difficult. Another was the exile.

The Bablyonian Disporia based their dating on year of "the captivity of Jehoiachin".
During the Hasmonean period the Jews adopted the Seleucid era counting.
Until the 10th century they used the "Era of Contracts:.
Then you had the anno mundi system.

In the 12th century AD the Jews adopted a mathematical lunisolar calendar (the one you keep posting) to strictly follow the Law. It does what observation couldn't.


In the end it does not matter. You are wrong because, as @Alan Gross noted, Mark woukd have reported what did happen in the first century- NOT what should have been done following a more percise 12th century calendar.

We can't know the year because we do not have the calendar used (which was dependent on the Sanhedrin). BUT we do know the days the 1st century Jews observed because these were recorded.

You have convinced yourself of an impossible date for the crucifixion. The funny thing is we can't know the exact date (which is why you rely on a modern calender), but we can know by Scripture that your date does not work. You simply can't see it because you are determined to dogmaticlly know what you cannot.

 

I believe Jesus was raised on Sunday because this fits the pattern of creation. But I know the tomb was empty very early, while it was still dark, on Sunday.

As far as "celebrate" goes, you clarified very well. We observe Christ's death, the sacrifice made for us, the "stroke" of the powers of this world - but we celebrate the victory in the resurrection as sin and death is defeated in Him.

I'd say the cross is a solemn observance while the Resurrection is a celebration - "He has risen!!".

 

If we interpret Mark to determine an exact date then we are misinterpreting Mark.


Mark tells us that Jesus was traveling when the Passover was being sacrificed and arrived to eat the meal when evening had arrived. He ate, went to the Garden, was arrested, and the next day crucified.


We have some clues we can use:

1. The Jews in Jesus' day sacrificed the Pasdover in the afternoon prior to the day, and the family meals were observed that evening (at sunset).

2. The Jews observed 14 Nisan as a day of preparation (the 15th being a holy day).

3. Jesus was quickly buried in a nearby tomb because the Sabbath was approaching.

4. That Sabbath fell on a "high day".

5. The Jews did not want to defiled themselves because they wanted to participate in eating the Passover (we don't know the day of the passover week, but most likely it woukd be the holy convocation on 15 Nisan).

6. The Jews woud not conduct business, travel outside of very short distances, or bury a body on 15 or 21 Nisan as these were set aside as holy convocations.

7. On 15 Nisan the Jewish leadership, priests, woukd be at the Temple observing the holy convocation.


But we cannot know the exact date because in Jesus' day the Jews did not use the mathematical lunisolar calendar that you keep posting.

 

@37818

This is getting very old. To put a point on it - you have failed to prove your position. To do so you need to first address an important issue:

The Law would prohibit the Crucifixion from occurring on 15 Nisan.

The Jewish laws in Jesus' day would prohibit the Crucifixion from occurring on 15 Nisan.

The gospels record exactly why it was important to the Jewish leaders to kill Jesus before 15 Nisan.

You calculate, using a mathematical lunisolar calendar (that the Jews used beginning in the 12th Century AD) that Jesus was crucified on 15 Nisan.


So your calculation goes against the Gospels, against the Law, and against the Jewish laws insofar as a date goes.


The only "evidence" you provide is a calendar not used in Jesus' time and your interpretation of Mark (which most Biblical scholars reject).



Please explain.

1. How do you account for a 15 Nisan crucifixion being contrary to the motivation of the timing in the Gospels, a violation of the Law, and a violation of Jewish laws?


2. Why should I, or anybody, consider your date a possibility, and can we without ignoring key passages regarding 15 Nisan?

 

You are ignoring that the mathematical lunisolar calendar you follow was started in the 12th century to more precisely follow the Law (which implies that the Biblical lunisolar observation, and the "observation and rekoning" based on the Seleucid calculations, was not exact).

What matters is HOW IT WAS DONE IN THE FIRST CENTURY.

Even the Biblical calendar was less specific than you allow (it was based on observation) and changed with location.


Another interesting item is the "cock crowing". As I'm sure you are aware, roosters and chickens were forbidden in Jerusalem. The "cock summon" or "crowing" was the three callings of the Priests to Israel.


BUT you are still ignoring my questions. You just keep saying that the Jews were following the 12th century AD calendar.


How do you justify ignoring that the Law, the Jewish laws, and the timing stated in the Gospels the Jews killed Jesus could not fall on 15 Nisan?

 

I'm going to ignore the "which calendar" argument because they used "observation and rekoning" based on the Seleucid calculations (and prescribed by the Sanhedrin), so we can't know an exact date. You can assume a clear evening and a 12th century calendar. That's fine.

What I am interested in is the day.

How do you address the fact that a 15th crucifixion would violate the Law, the Jewish laws, and the reason the gospels give for the Priest's timing?

 

I do not understand how this answers my question.

I was specifically asking about the Jewish laws, the Law (passages in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers) which would have prohibited a crucifixion on 15 Nissan as well as the gospel writers explaining why it was important to the priests to kill Jesus before 15 Nisan.

How do you reconcile the gospels, the Law, and the Jewish laws which would prevent a crucifixion on 15 Nisan with your calculation that it occurred on 15 Nisan???


I ask because as it stands you are asking us to believe your calculations (using a 12th century method) against God's Word.

This has to be addressed before we move on. It would be the same if you calculated the Resurrection to have been on Monday as how that contradicts Scripture would need to be addressed before talking about specific dates or days.

 

I already did (several times).

Exodus 12, Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, and Numbers 28 state that 15 Nisan is a holy day set apart as a holy convocation. No work, no business, no traveling (beyond residence). The Jews could not have arrested Jesus, held their counsel, or petitioned for His death on 15 Nisan.

Matthew 26, Mark 14, and Luke 22, testify as to why the Jewish leaders chose a day prior to Nisan 15 to kill Jesus.


You are relying on your misunderstanding of Mark 14:12-17 to erroneously believe the crucifixion had to occur on 15 Nisan.

There are good reasons Biblical scholars reject that date. The reason is Scripture.

To reinforce Scripture we have first century accounts of the timing of the killing, sacrifice, priest meal, and Seder meal.

You made a mistake. It doesn't matter in the end, except you seem to hang so much on your error.

 

Beyond the fact that the Jews wouldn't have arrested Jesus, held a counsel to deliver Him, pay Judas, turn Jesus over to the Romans, be present for the Roman's decision, be there to accept the release of Barnabas, lay Jesus in a tomb? The Romans woukd not execute on the Sabbath because they were to charged with keeping peace in the area.

You seem to forget the readon they rushed to lay Jesus in a tomb.

It would be meaningless if they were going to violate a day of holy convocation anyway.


You seem to be forgetting the Jewish timing to kill Jesus before the 15th.

You seem to be forgetting that the Jews could not pay Judas on the 15th.

You seem to be forgetting the Jews couldn't arrest Jesus on 15 Nisan.

You seem to be forgetting the Jews couldn't petition for the crucifixion on the 15th.

You seem to be forgetting that the Jews would have been at the Temple when you think the Romans presented Jesus to them.

You seem to be forgetting that Jesus could not be laid in the tomb on your timing.

 

You are not being honest here.

Based on your understanding the priests abandoned their positions, the Jews violated their laws, the Jewish leaders violated the Law, those following Christ violated God''s command, the writers of Matthew, Mark, and Luke made an error in explaining the Jewish leaders timing.....

The logical conclusion is that your calculations are wrong.

I have to side with Scripture on this one. You are mistaking. Mark was speaking form a 1st century Jewish perspective. He was not writing a technical instruction book.

You have simply made a common error by forgetting that the gospels were written at a specific time in history and in that context.

In understanding Scripture one of the first considerations is to determine and grasp what those words woukd have meant to the immediate audience (here, the 1st century audience living after the Resurrection).

You pretend they were written to people in Moses' day using a 12th century AD calendar. You are wrong because of that slight error in judgment.

 

You mean "according to my understanding, even though most Biblical scholars disagree".

You understand Jesus to have eaten the meal on 15 Nisan (after sunset on 14 Nisan). That does not mean you are correct.

You are simply arguing that your calculations are correct by insisting they are correct.

You say the Jews violated the Law and Jewish laws of the holy convocation to crucify.

By that logic, the Jews could have instead sacrificed the evening beginning 14 Nisan (as recorded in Jewish laws) and crucified Jesus on the afternoon of 14 Nisan.


You have no ground to stand on because your position depends on violating Scripture. You just choose the Scripture to violate.

The Passover killing could also have been the thousands of pasdover lambs and goats killed in preparation of the Passover (not necessarily the priest ceremony).