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Historical usage of Words reveals the Contextual Meaning

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
The claim our heart must be supernaturally altered to put our faith in Christ is complete fiction, without a shred of support in scripture./QUOTE]

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The Lord opened Lydia's heart so that she attended to the gospel message that Paul gave to her.

Acts 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Acts 18:27 βουλομένου δὲ αὐτοῦ διελθεῖν εἰς τὴν Ἀχαΐαν, προτρεψάμενοι οἱ ἀδελφοὶ ἔγραψαν τοῖς μαθηταῖς ἀποδέξασθαι αὐτόν· ὃς παραγενόμενος συνεβάλετο πολὺ τοῖς πεπιστευκόσι διὰ τῆς χάριτος·

The perfect active participle plus dia with grace in the genitive as its object proves that these people had believed through the grace that was given to them. Saving faith is always only by the grace (totally unmerited and unmeritable favor) that God bestows upon completely undeserving sinners.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The Lord opened Lydia's heart so that she attended to the gospel message that Paul gave to her.

Acts 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Acts 18:27 βουλομένου δὲ αὐτοῦ διελθεῖν εἰς τὴν Ἀχαΐαν, προτρεψάμενοι οἱ ἀδελφοὶ ἔγραψαν τοῖς μαθηταῖς ἀποδέξασθαι αὐτόν· ὃς παραγενόμενος συνεβάλετο πολὺ τοῖς πεπιστευκόσι διὰ τῆς χάριτος·

The perfect active participle plus dia with grace in the genitive as its object proves that these people had believed through the grace that was given to them. Saving faith is always only by the grace (totally unmerited and unmeritable favor) that God bestows upon completely undeserving sinners.

Once again a vague phrase (opened her heart) has been recast and claimed to mean "altered by irresistible grace." Complete fiction without a shred of support in scripture.

Next, "through grace" (another vague term because it not say what form the grace took) is recast and claimed to mean "altered by irresistible grace."

People believe through the revelatory grace of the gospel. "Saving faith" is our faith if credited by God alone as righteousness.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
How had Lydia's heart been opened by the Lord so she took heed of what Paul was saying? She was a worshiper of God, so believed in God and desired to act according to His will. Paul was telling the audience the "ordinances of God (Acts 16:4) which primarily is to believe in Christ and in Him who sent Him.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Historical meaning of "all" (pas) is referring to all of whatever is in view, not everything imaginable.

Thus when "pas" is translated as "all things" we need to drop the red flag on the translators, and interpret the phrase as meaning "all these" such that we look for the contextual meaning.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB)
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son determines to reveal Him.

Here "all things" actually refers to "all these revelations that lead to repentance" are in view.


Matthew19:26 (NASB]
And looking at them, Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”​

Here "all things" refers to the salvation of people, thus "with God all salvations are possible."

When we see the phrase, look for what is in view contextually.

 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Historical meaning of "all" (pas) is referring to all of whatever is in view, not everything imaginable.

Thus when "pas" is translated as "all things" we need to drop the red flag on the translators, and interpret the phrase as meaning "all these" such that we look for the contextual meaning.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB)
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son determines to reveal Him.

Here "all things" actually refers to "all these revelations that lead to repentance" are in view.


Matthew19:26 (NASB]
And looking at them, Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”​

Here "all things" refers to the salvation of people, thus "with God all salvations are possible."

When we see the phrase, look for what is in view contextually.

Van, you continue your IGNORANCE of the Greek grammar!!!

As is your theology!

You really don't have a clue :Geek:rolleyes:
 
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Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
Once again a vague phrase (opened her heart) has been recast and claimed to mean "altered by irresistible grace." Complete fiction without a shred of support in scripture.

Next, "through grace" (another vague term because it not say what form the grace took) is recast and claimed to mean "altered by irresistible grace."

People believe through the revelatory grace of the gospel. "Saving faith" is our faith if credited by God alone as righteousness.
These are false statements by someone who has an agenda and is unwilling to accept what Scripture actually says and discuss Scripture fairly without misrepresenting what people say. I did not make any statements about "altered by irresistible grace."

Acts 16:14 refutes your false claim that Scripture never talks about God's doing a supernatural work in a person's heart so that they accept the message that is given to them.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The Lord opened Lydia's heart so that she attended to the gospel message that Paul gave to her.

Acts 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Acts 18:27 βουλομένου δὲ αὐτοῦ διελθεῖν εἰς τὴν Ἀχαΐαν, προτρεψάμενοι οἱ ἀδελφοὶ ἔγραψαν τοῖς μαθηταῖς ἀποδέξασθαι αὐτόν· ὃς παραγενόμενος συνεβάλετο πολὺ τοῖς πεπιστευκόσι διὰ τῆς χάριτος·

The perfect active participle plus dia with grace in the genitive as its object proves that these people had believed through the grace that was given to them. Saving faith is always only by the grace (totally unmerited and unmeritable favor) that God bestows upon completely undeserving sinners.

In the first place, when you try to USE any Scripture to TRY and "prove" what you believe, you will do well to be honest and look at the WHOLE CONTEXT!

It is BECAUSE Lydia was ALREADY a "Worshiper" of the One True God, that is, a SEEKER of God, God sent Paul to speak the Gospel to her, and "opened her heart" so that she might comprehend what she was been told! Don't ADD to what the Bible clearly says!

This is EXACTLY what we read in chapter 10 of Acts, of the conversion of Cornelius.

BEFORE Peter went to preach the Gospel of salvation, this is what the Bible actually says;

"There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment. He was a devout man and feared God along with his whole household. He did many charitable deeds for the Jewish people and always prayed to God. About three in the afternoon he distinctly saw in a vision an angel of God who came in and said to him, “Cornelius!” Looking intently at him, he became afraid and said, “What is it, lord?” The angel told him, “Your prayers and your acts of charity have come up as a memorial offering before God" verses 1-4

It is BECAUSE of Cornelius FEARING God with his household, and his PRAYERS to God, that was the REASON for God sending Peter with the Gospel.

Read also verses 34-35

"Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism, but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him"

EVERYONE who FEARS the God of the Bible, and DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS, is ACCEPTABLE to God!

This does NOT mean that these are somehow automatically saved, but rather, that God will make sure that any TRUE SEEKER of Him WILL hear the Gospel"

As Paul tells us in Acts 17:27, "He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us"

God does NOT bestow any "saving faith or grace" on only the so called "elect", as some erroneously teach!

"God LOVES VERY MUCH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, with a SAVING LOVE, that ANYONE from this HUMAN RACE who truly BELIEVES, WILL be saved" (John 3:16, my translation)

ANY "limitations" on the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ, is RANK HERESY, and comes not from the God of the Bible; but the devil himself!
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Historical meaning of "all" (pas) is referring to all of whatever is in view, not everything imaginable.

Thus when "pas" is translated as "all things" we need to drop the red flag on the translators, and interpret the phrase as meaning "all these" such that we look for the contextual meaning.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB)
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son determines to reveal Him.

Here "all things" actually refers to "all these revelations that lead to repentance" are in view.


Matthew19:26 (NASB]
And looking at them, Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”​

Here "all things" refers to the salvation of people, thus "with God all salvations are possible."

When we see the phrase, look for what is in view contextually.

In BOTH verses that you quote, the Greek adjective, "πάντα", is used in the NEUTER plural, which is used for the TOTALITY, as in EVERY SINGLE THING!
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
God does NOT bestow any "saving faith or grace" on only the so called "elect", as some erroneously teach!

"God LOVES VERY MUCH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, with a SAVING LOVE, that ANYONE from this HUMAN RACE who truly BELIEVES, WILL be saved" (John 3:16, my translation)

ANY "limitations" on the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ, is RANK HERESY, and comes not from the God of the Bible; but the devil himself!

These comments do not have anything to do with anything that I said. You need to learn to be honest with what people say and not make false remarks that in effect completely misrepresent them and are in no way in keeping with anything that they have said.
 
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Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
In the first place, when you try to USE any Scripture to TRY and "prove" what you believe, you will do well to be honest and look at the WHOLE CONTEXT!

It is BECAUSE Lydia was ALREADY a "Worshiper" of the One True God, that is, a SEEKER of God, God sent Paul to speak the Gospel to her, and "opened her heart" so that she might comprehend what she was been told! Don't ADD to what the Bible clearly says!
This is an entirely false claim--I did not add anything "to what the Bible says clearly."

Furthermore, I am very well aware of the whole context of the account and did not say anything that is not in keeping with the whole context. God opened Lydia's heart to attend to what was spoken to her--that is what the text explicitly says:

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I wonder how our vernacular would look a millenia from now.

"That guy is nice"

What does that actually mean?

Well, the root of "nice" is the Latin word nescire, which means "not know". "Nice" comes from nescius (latin) which means "ignorant" and is the Old French word for ignorant. In Middle English (to the late 15th Century) the word "nice" means "stupid".

Therefore "That guy is nice" means "that guy is stupid".
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
This is an entirely false claim--I did not add anything "to what the Bible says clearly."

Furthermore, I am very well aware of the whole context of the account and did not say anything that is not in keeping with the whole context. God opened Lydia's heart to attend to what was spoken to her--that is what the text explicitly says:

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

can you not read?

It clearly says, "WHO WORSHIPED GOD", and "HEARD US", so Lydia was already SEEKING TO KNOW the Lord! THEN it says that the "LORD OPENED HER HEART SO THAT SHE MIGHT UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS PREACHED BY PAUL"!

DON'T try and FORCE the plain meaning of what God actually says!
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
can you not read?

It clearly says, "WHO WORSHIPED GOD", and "HEARD US", so Lydia was already SEEKING TO KNOW the Lord! THEN it says that the "LORD OPENED HER HEART SO THAT SHE MIGHT UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS PREACHED BY PAUL"!

DON'T try and FORCE the plain meaning of what God actually says!
Are you not able to comprehend plain English?

Her being a worshiper of God and hearing them was of no avail in saving her. She was not saved until God opened her heart so that she attended to what Paul ministered to her.

Without the supernatural work of God's opening her heart, she would have remained an unsaved worshiper of God.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Are you not able to comprehend plain English?

Her being a worshiper of God and hearing them was of no avail in saving her. She was not saved until God opened her heart so that she attended to what Paul ministered to her.

Without the supernatural work of God's opening her heart, she would have remained an unsaved worshiper of God.

You make God GUILTY of being a RESPECTER OF PERSONS!!!

There is NO "election to salvation" for "the elect" as is FALSELY taught by the so called "reformed"!

Lydia, as ALL sinners are, saved AFTER they REPENT of their sins and BELIEVE in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Period! There is NO other way!
 

Scripture More Accurately

Well-Known Member
You make God GUILTY of being a RESPECTER OF PERSONS!!!

There is NO "election to salvation" for "the elect" as is FALSELY taught by the so called "reformed"!

Lydia, as ALL sinners are, saved AFTER they REPENT of their sins and BELIEVE in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Period! There is NO other way!

I have never claimed to be "reformed." I hate what the acceptance of much so-called "Reformed" doctrine and practice has done to Baptist churches, especially in the area of music that is used for worship.

I have not made God guilty of anything. You are unable to be honest with Scripture because you need to make your theological system work instead of letting the Scripture say whatever God has said in it.

I have never claimed that anyone is saved apart from repentance and faith. You have again falsely implied that I believe something that I have never said in any way was true.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, you will answer for all your false statements about me.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van, you continue your IGNORANCE of the Greek grammar!!!
As is your theology!
You really don't have a clue :Geek:rolleyes:

This poster seems to like to insult others and deny truth. Not what I would call a "Son of Encouragement."
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Acts of the Apostles 16:14 (NASB)
"A woman named Lydia was listening; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, and a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."

How had Lydia's heart been opened by the Lord so she took heed of what Paul was saying? She was a worshiper of God, so believed in God and desired to act according to His will. Paul was telling the audience the "ordinances of God (Acts 16:4) which primarily is to believe in Christ and in Him who sent Him.

Note that the false claim this verse shows God doing a "supernatural work in a person's heart" is totally based on reading into a vague phrase, an unsupported addition to the text.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In BOTH verses that you quote, the Greek adjective, "πάντα", is used in the NEUTER plural, which is used for the TOTALITY, as in EVERY SINGLE THING!
LOL, the idea is to totality of every single thing in contextual view. Thus "all these"

Historical meaning of "all" (pas) is referring to all of whatever is in view, not everything imaginable.

Thus when "pas" is translated as "all things" we need to drop the red flag on the translators, and interpret the phrase as meaning "all these" such that we look for the contextual meaning.

Matthew 11:27 (NASB)
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son determines to reveal Him.

Here "all things" actually refers to "all these revelations that lead to repentance" are in view.


Matthew19:26 (NASB]
And looking at them, Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Here "all things" refers to the salvation of people, thus "with God all salvations are possible."

When we see the phrase, look for what is in view contextually.
 
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