Exodus 12:18

[37818]

Exodus 12:18, fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

7 days of unleavened bread.

14th, sunset, morning and day.
15th, sunset, morning and day.
16th, sunset, morning and day.
17th, sunset, morning and day.
18th, sunset, morning and day.
19th, sunset, morning and day.
20th, sunset, morning and day.
21st, sunset

Reference the feast of unleavened bread.

15th, sunset, morning and day.
16th, sunset, morning and day.
17th, sunset, morning and day.
18th, sunset, morning and day.
19th, sunset, morning and day.
20th, sunset, morning and day.
21st, sunset, morning and day.

See Deuteronomy 16:8, Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

 

[JonC]

The Exodus period is interesting here. The reason is how they determined the dates (this gets very interesting with their enemies during the Seleucid period and the exile).

Many people look for a fixed date and time without even realizing this fluctuated based on location (the Jewish day would start at different times in Egypt, Bablyon, and Jerusalem) and circumstances (the Seleucids preventing the OT method, weather conditions, etc.).

And then, of course, if you take God making the sun to stand still in Joshua to mean an extended day you have to at least acknowledge the modern calculations would be off substantially....as would astrological indicators present in relation to the Earth today.

Of course there is the added issue that during the divided kingdom Judah and Israel did not use the same calendar.

And, obviously, you have the Seleucid calendar which influenced the Jewish Calendar prior to the Maccabean Revolt (through the Hasmonean period and 1st Century AD).

Nowadays it is easy (the Jewish Calendar is no longer based on observation but on calculation). We use calculations where the Hebrew Law had required observation via two messengers, then observation and reckoning.

The Jewish Calendar was standardized in 359 AD and by 1178 AD the Hebrew Calendar of observation and rekoning was replaced with one of calculation.

So we can know the Jewish dates, but it is impossible to know exactly how those dates fell (we can't correlate the OT Calendar to the 1st Century Jewish Calendar, to the Julian Calendar with absolute certainty).

 

[37818]

Video about 3 1/3 minutes.

 

[37818]

How it could be possible our current calculated Jewish calendar could be off + or - 30 days.

Video about 12 1/3 minutes

 

[37818]

Part 2 of argument.

Video about 20 minutes.

 

[37818]

Calendar Converter

 

[37818]

Part 3 of argument.

Video 37 minutes.

 

[37818]

Calendar Converter

The publisher of the video thinks the calandar should be different then the current calculated Jewish calendar.

Christ crucified Wedensday Nisan 14th Julian date 31 AD April 25th. .

 

[JonC]

The readon a calendar Converter cannot be used to convert the ancient Hebrew Calendar to the Julian Calendar is that the converter calculates astrological data (it can only provide a conversion to the post 10th Century AD Calendar or suggest how the ancient Calendar would correspond if they used Maimonides' calendar).

During the Exodus the calendar was based on observation only.

In 586 BC the Hebrew Calendar was influenced by the Bablyonian Calendar.

In 359 AD Hillel II created the solar lunar calendar.

In the 8th Century AD the Jews changed their calendar system.

In 1178 AD the Hebrews adopted a mathematical calendar (the calculations @37818 assumes existed throughout history).

What @37818 is ignoring is Hodesh Ha-Aviv.

 

[JonC]

Calendar Converter

How does the calendar Converter account for Hodesh Ha-Aviv to determine exactly when the year began?

I ask because the converter seems only to be able to provide the 12th Century Hebrew Calendar (the Hebrew Calendar based on mathematical calculations to determine the stage of the moon).

BUT when talking about the ancient Hebrew Calendar we have to have more information.

For example, to know the date of the Crucifixion we would have to know when Hodesh Ha-Aviv that year occurred....or we would risk being off by at least a month.

But it is impossible to know this exact date because it is impossible to know the date the barley was aviv.


Those who seek to determine an exact date corresponding to our calendar are, IMHO, obsessed people detracting from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Thinking themselves wise they become fools.

 

[37818]

The readon a calendar Converter cannot be used to convert the ancient Hebrew Calendar to the Julian Calendar is that the converter calculates astrological data (it can only provide a conversion to the post 10th Century AD Calendar or suggest how the ancient Calendar would correspond if they used Maimonides' calendar).

During the Exodus the calendar was based on observation only.

In 586 BC the Hebrew Calendar was influenced by the Bablyonian Calendar.

In 359 AD Hillel II created the solar lunar calendar.

In the 8th Century AD the Jews changed their calendar system.

In 1178 AD the Hebrews adopted a mathematical calendar (the calculations @37818 assumes existed throughout history).

What @37818 is ignoring is Hodesh Ha-Aviv.

Posts #4, #5 & #7 addresses the calendar problem. And suggest the current calculated Jewish calendar is off 30 days.

The 7 days of the week are not at issue. The Hodesh Ha-Aviv is.

 

[37818]

How does the calendar Converter account for Hodesh Ha-Aviv to determine exactly when the year began?

Read in the program Calendar Converter notes, The Hebrew Calendar.


What is explained in the video in Post #7 is in contrast.

The 7 days of a week and the observable first crescent sets the first of the month contingent on dates in the month to the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[JonC]

Read in the program Calendar Converter notes, The Hebrew Calendar.


What is explained in the video in Post #7 is in contrast.

The 7 days of a week and the observable first crescent sets the first of the month contingent on dates in the month to the 7th day Sabbath.

I agree that the calendar calculator woukd be accurate if historically the Jewish Calendar utilized the 12th century method, and therefore can be useful to estimate dates.

The issue is we cannot know exact dates.

The reason is we cannot know the weather of ancient months (we cannot know when dates were added to "push back" Hodesh Ha-Aviv, for example).

Now, if we exclude location and observation, then I agree that simply based on lunar cycles we should be able to calculate dates.

The problem is that the Jews did not use such a method. The Jewish leaders - whether right or wrong, Biblically- manipulated dates to fit ceremonial events. In the 4th Century BC they allowed Bablyonian influences into their dating system. The Sanhedrin, in 1st Century AD controlled the start of the new year.


So we have two things here:

1. Based on mathametical calculations when would ancient events have occurred? We can calculate this - BUT the Jews didn't use this type of Calendar until the 12th century AD.

2. Regardless of calendars and calculations, when did events actually occur? This we cannot know.


You seem to be forgetting that the mathematical calculations Hebrew Calendar was not implemented until the 12th Century AD. This was a different Calendar from what was before, and to be fair it is more accurate (not as subjective as the OT Calendar, not a blend of Bablyonian and Hebrew methods as the 1st Century Calendar, and not dependent on crops).

The best we can do is to read contemporary accounts of those dates even if they do not align perfectly with the 12th century Hebrew calendar.

In the end it is impossible to know the exact dates of ancient Hebrew events insofar as how they convert to the Julian Calendar.

 

[37818]

The issue is we cannot know exact dates.

Not true. We can know *exactly dates based on the phases of the Moon.

From Mark 14:12 we can deduce a Jewish month day and a day of the week. As to an actual historical date and year, there are three possibilities. There can be no possible date. Two possible dates. Or only one possible date (agrees with the barley harvest).

The argument we cannot know the historical date would support the notion the case can be made there could be no actual possible historical crucifixion.

* To within error of calculations.

 

[JonC]

Not true. We can know *exactly dates based on the phases of the Moon.

From Mark 14:12 we can deduce a Jewish month day and a day of the week. As to an actual historical date and year, there are three possibilities. There can be no possible date. Two possible dates. Or only one possible date (agrees with the barley harvest).

The argument we cannot know the historical date would support the notion the case can be made there could be no actual possible historical crucifixion.

* To within error of calculations.

No, we can't.

The readon, of course, is that the Hebrew calendar did not always follow the phases of the moon.

In the OT the method was observation (with two messengers). From around 500 BC the Hebrew Calendar was influenced with the Bablyonian Calendar. In the 1st century the Hebrew Calendar was one of "observation and reckoning" (the "reckoning included adjustments, which is why Hodesh Ha-Aviv is important).

In the 12th century AD the Hebrew Calendar changed to the one you use (calculating the lunar cycles).

I get that facts contradict your theory and make it impossible to know for certain those dates. I get you put a lot of faith in your system. I also get that most here know you are wrong and even why you are wrong.

I posted facts here not to change your mind (you will lean on your own understanding) but to point out to others that these conversions are a fools errand.

 

[37818]

Long held Friday Crucifixion date, Julian date 30 AD, April 7th.

Sir Isaac Newton's two proposed Friday crucifixion dates, Julian date 34 AD, April 23rd and Julian date 33 AD, April 3rd.

 

[37818]

No, we can't.

The readon, of course, is that the Hebrew calendar did not always follow the phases of the moon.

In the OT the method was observation (with two messengers). From around 500 BC the Hebrew Calendar was influenced with the Bablyonian Calendar. In the 1st century the Hebrew Calendar was one of "observation and reckoning" (the "reckoning included adjustments, which is why Hodesh Ha-Aviv is important).

In the 12th century AD the Hebrew Calendar changed to the one you use (calculating the lunar cycles).

I get that facts contradict your theory and make it impossible to know for certain those dates. I get you put a lot of faith in your system. I also get that most here know you are wrong and even why you are wrong.

I posted facts here not to change your mind (you will lean on your own understanding) but to point out to others that these conversions are a fools errand.

Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .
Both things can be explicitly understood to be the day of of the 14th of Nisan. And based on the context, Mark 14:12-17, places the crucifixion on the first day of the feast of unleavened bread which is a holy convocation, the 15th of Nisan, being the whole following day.

 

[JonC]

Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .
Both things can be explicitly understood to be the day of of the 14th of Nisan. And based on the context, Mark 14:12-17, places the crucifixion on the first day of the feast of unleavened bread which is a holy convocation, the 15th of Nisan, being the whole following day.

Nobody is denying Mark 14.

The problem is you choose to use a recreation of the 12th century Hebrew Calendar to convert what occurred over 1100 years prior to the use of that calendar.

 

[JonC]

AstroPixels - Six Millennium Catalog of Phases of the Moon

Your problem is that the calendar in Exodus was based on observation, not calculation.

Then it was influenced by the Bablyonian Calendar.

Then it was by "observation and reckoning".

Then in the 4th century AD (359 AD) it was Hillel's solarluner calender.

Then in the 12th century it was your calculation method.

You close your eye and put your fingers in your ears to history....the sad part is it doesn't even matter to the Chriatian faith. You choose a foolish hill, one that is not historically accurate, to make your stand.

The fact is that we cannot know the exact dates in the Julian Calendar that the crucifixion occurred. We cannot know Jesus' exact birth place, the exact spot where He was baptized, His exact date of birth.....and when we pretend otherwise we make a mockery of Christianity by transforming actual events into mythology.

 

[37818]

Your problem is that the calendar in Exodus was based on observation, not calculation.

The point of the link, what one would observe can be calculated.