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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 37818, Sep 18, 2024.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Brother, that discussion tends to cause arguments in BB, mostly from those Christian’s who don’t believe those doctrines… be careful, this place is a litter pile of hurt feelings, contentious fighting etc. my purpose is to bring the brothers together not separate them… even though that might be the last outcome.
     
    #161 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
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  2. Christforums

    Christforums Member

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    And that's my experience too!
     
    #162 Christforums, Sep 25, 2024
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I already know the history of the Primitive Baptist Church. It is an interesting and honorable history, although I disagree with their reasons for splitting with the original Baptists.
    I also know of the myths the Primitive Baptists (identical to the Church of Christ....which split from the Disciples of Christ) have adopted as a "history".

    I believe those false histories unnecessary and dependent on a distinctly Catholic view of the importance of heredity. Landmarkism are probably the most guilty of this.


    But Primitive Baptists hold a very clear Reformed (Calvinistic....not Lutheran) understanding of Jesus' work. This was inherited from the "original Baptists" from which they split.


    That said, other than condemning their brethren at times, they are a good denomination. I like a lot about Primitive Baptists.
     
    #163 JonC, Sep 25, 2024
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I hope he is well. I see he was here 8 weeks ago. I think I have his info somewhere. I'll try to check on him.
     
    #164 JonC, Sep 25, 2024
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Funny but Pelagius was supposedly of Morgan kin… meaning Welsh people in Britain. Therefore I would be related to this character. I find that hilarious, my family were Welsh Methodist Calvinists, Particular Baptists & Congregational. Anyway, that’s my fathers side. All Welsh coal miners in Pennsylvania.
     
    #165 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Please do. Thanks.
     
    #166 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Again, they are the original baptists. Your new school baptists are the ones who chose to take the walk … but since your SBC I will make allowances for your amnesia. We are both still Baptists after all the changes.
     
    #167 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. They split from original Baptists in the early 1800's.

    One sect within the original Baptists, influenced by the Presbyterian Church, adopted Calvinism to a greater degree. The original Baptists had a large focus on evangelism. But there became dissenting voices.

    Daniel Parker was perhaps the most prominent among the original Baptists. He was a hyper Calvinist and Landmarkist (kinda like J.R. Graves was to the SBC). He developed a view that essentially took man as being divided into two unrelated people groups (the "two seed doctrine"). He was influential in Landmarkism and the Anti-missions movement. He arrived at the latter by taking Calvinism to its natural conclusion (evangelism could only make men God's enemy because they would be witnessing to the reprobate and the elect would be saved regardkess).

    So missions was one (probably the primary) reason Primitive Baptists split from the original Baptists.

    Primitive Baptists split from original Baptists (they were the sect that left the larger body). They were also known as "hard shell" Baptists by outsiders because of their legalism (they later embraced the name).

    Another readon Primitive Baptists split from original Baptists was Bible classes outside of the church service. They did not see this as being prescribed by the Bible (another CoC trait).

    Primitive Baptists also rejected what they viewed as "progressive" (music instruments in worship, Bible study groups, fellowship halls, etc.).

    Essentially Primitive Baptists were Church of Christ Calvinists who affirmed believers baptism. (Not that they came from the CoC).


    If you are interested you can read the original correspondence of the time detailing the issue (the split from original Baptists). They are largely in the archives located in Nashville TN. You can read their own words by their own hand. I did (had to wear gloves....tore one page accidentally but don't tell). A lot of the material has been copied to microfiche as well.
     
    #168 JonC, Sep 25, 2024
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Jon, I have Glen Ramsey’s home telephone number if you want it. I just want to keep it private if you don’t mind. Let me know, please advise.

    thanks
    Steve D.
     
    #169 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If you dont mind, via pm. I can't find it (I have deleted too many old pm's).
     
    #170 JonC, Sep 25, 2024
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is the persuasion of claimed to be primitive Baptist.
     
    #171 37818, Sep 25, 2024
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I have CoC friends and have had this same discussion. It doesn't help that the Bible uses the words "Church of Christ" :(

    We do like to think that throughout history there were churches exactly like us, with our theories of Atonement, Western ideologies and worldviews.

    But the truth is even in Acts we had differences in churches and church practices.

    The issue with musical instruments is interesting. In the US it was by necessity (in the Bible psalms were accompanied). But when instruments were easily avaliable it constituted a change in what had become tradition.
     
    #172 JonC, Sep 25, 2024
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  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Come again
     
    #173 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    We use our congregational voices as instruments. In truth, unless your a practiced instrumental orchestra then I’d much rather hear hymn music playing than a clanging out of tune musical instrument.
     
    #174 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Next comes the light shows and then the purple smoke … when will it end I ask my self, where does it end! :confused:​
     
    #175 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    This morning, I got up at 530am, put the dog out and released my chickens from their coop’s… walked into my home, pored some strong coffee and listened to Varied Bach music. My quiet time, beautiful and meditative. Frankly I Don’t recall hearing that at any church I’ve been in attendance of. But I’ve heard pretty good Acapella music sung by churches sung from the pews.
     
    #176 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
  17. Christforums

    Christforums Member

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    Reformed follow the Normative or Regulative principles of worship. Normative: if the Scriptures do not explicitly state against then allowed. Regulative: only in which was stated is allowed in worship. Every Reformed church falls within these two categories. An observation, when reaching out to the youth in evangelism it isn't uncommon to see churches adopt the Normative principles of worship.

    For example, Psalm only singing is Regulative principle and instruments are too because the Psalms were directed at instrumentals. Normative might for example question, what kind of instruments? Percussions, the scriptures do not explicitly state against so percussions are allowed. Likewise hymns are mentioned in Scripture therefore hymn singing follows the Regulative principles.

    The basis for the Regulative principles of worship concern the sons of Aaron and the strange fire which was not authorized resulting in death. On another note we all have our preferences. For example, whether chairs or pews belong in the congregation, dress, etc. Generally, Normative principle of worship churches tend to entertain more whereas Regulative compels congregational participation or no music exists (silence). Regulative principle churches also tend to follow a very organized itinerary throughout worship.

    Shalom
     
    #177 Christforums, Sep 25, 2024
  18. Christforums

    Christforums Member

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    You have chickens too? My girls, what I call them love to come for pets. I love when they spread their wings and bow down for a good massage. I am always reminded of the Spirit of the L-rd as well the desire to gather them in my arms.
     
    #178 Christforums, Sep 25, 2024
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You claimed:
     
    #179 37818, Sep 25, 2024
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I’m not certain I can do that (pm) a moderator… I tried too already. Do you have my email or call me and I will give it to you that way.
     
    #180 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 25, 2024
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