The Social Gospel?

This is what I mean. Looking at the CPC and GOP they are very similar. Both compromise, probably out of necessity, but they still supprt evil (probably to lesser degree than their competitors).

Each one of us has to decide what compromises they will make. Your choice is too extreme for me.

One main issue is that a government cannot legislate morality. If you address as Christia government over a non-Christian nation (like the US and Canada) then you have an oligarchy. That may be Roman Catholic, not Christian.

Another is actively supporting abortion as a choice. Another is the normalization of homosexuality.

I cannot knowingly support evil, even if I think it will stand against othe evils. The cost of your compromise is too great. It is willful sin to oppose evil.

 

By your reasoning Christiands should have supported Christian persecutin, the murder of missionaries in Africa, and the Holocaust because God used those things.

You are confusing yourself with God. We are called to obedience, not to do evil for good reasons becuse God may use it.

 

There were two sons,one good and one evil. When their father got deathly ill one son prayed for his recovery because he loved his father but the other for his father's death because he wanted an inheritance. It was God's will to take the father that night.

Which was the good son?
Which was the evil son?


God does not need men to vote in order to tear down and raise up nations. In fact, voting never has that outcome.

 

I'm not trying to win anybody over. I am not frustrated (I do wish I had power at home, but I'm not frustrated).

Do I believe that abortion is evil? Yes.

Do I believe supporting a platform that views abortion as a choice is evil? Yes

Do I believe the normalization of homosexuality is evil? Yes.

Do I believe that supporting those things above is evil? Yes.

It isn't silly. I simply reject supporting evil to hopefully obtain a desirable outcome.

You have resorted again to making false accusations (old habit for you). I did say that God uses evil men for His good. But you have not provided a passage commanding us to be those evil men.

We are taught, in the Bible, to flee...not support...evil. We are taught to obey God and trust Him for the outcome.

The idea that we should support evil to do good is foreign to Scripture.

You holding your nose when you vote should be telling you something about what you are supporting with your vote. You hold your nose because you recognize the evil but want to block out from your mind some of the things you are supporting.

 

I agree we are put in a time and place for God's purposes.

Paul used his citizenship to be a witness of the gospel.

I think that we are to do the same. We use our rights to share the gospel, to reach individuals, to be "salt and light".

My issue is I see Christians actually joining a political party that stands on a platform that is evil.

I do not believe Paul would have partnered with or supported a political power that stood for abortion as a choice, the normalization of homosexuality, and SSM.

I agree Paul used his citizenship. I disagree that he used it to support a worldly power to bring about change.


Don't get me wrong - I do believe we share the gospel by engaging with Republicans and Democrats.

But we don't, of course, judge Democrats or Republicans (the World is already condemned). We try to reach individuals that are in the world.


What is the goal of uniting with a worldly power (Democrat or Republican). Is it to change the government (the worldly power, the forces of evil) or is it to reach Republicans and Democrats with the gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

I agree and disagree.


Working in a public school, for example, is not supporting the "powers of darkness". This is closer to what Paul did (he used his status as a Roman to witness). Now, if the public school forced you to teach evil to children then that would be different. As it is, I know many school teachers who reach children for Christ, who care for children. They would quit if forced to teach evil.

So perhaps in some school systems this would be a problem. Maybe in the future it could be in all public schools. But it isn't at this time. The majority is judged by the minority. My son graduated a couple of years ago, and when he was in public school he saw several of his friends be saved through Christians in the school.


I agree we cannot escape the cesspool. But we do not have to join this cesspool.

I don't mean we avoid reaching out to, and loving, Democrats and Republicans. We have to let people in both political parties know that we are not their opposition, and share the gospel with them.


BUT how can we witness to people of the World if we look identical to them, supporting the same platforms, the same evils, to achieve the same or a competing political agenda?


If I met you at a political event, asked who you supported, and you said "Trump" then I would know you support many of the economic and immigration policies that I believe are important to the nation.

But I would also know that you support abortion as a choice, the normalization of homosexuality, and same sex marriage.

I would not think that you were a Christian because of the evils you are willing to support, even if by compromise.

If you told me you were a Christian I'd take you at your word, but I'd walk away wondering how a Christian could support those evils merely for political gain knowing that it is God who lifts up and tears down nations.

If I were an atheist then I'd view you as wanting an oligarchy, wanting to impose your beliefs on a minority but at the same time supporting the opposite of what you want to force others to obey.


How could you legitimately witness to a young woman seeking an abortion and offer her a better path of you are at the same time supporting a platform that vows to keep abortion a choice?

How can you witness to one caught up in homosexuality if you are supporting a platform that values the normalization of homosexuality and same sex marriage?

 

No. I fully acknowledged that God has used very evil men and very evil nations for His purposes.

I am saying that we should not be one of those evil mem God uses.


How could you legitimately witness to a young woman seeking an abortion and offer her a better path of you are at the same time supporting a platform that vows to keep abortion a choice?

How can you witness to one caught up in homosexuality if you are supporting a platform that values the normalization of homosexuality and same sex marriage?

You couldn't. That's hypocrisy.

Your witness, your being "salt and light", would be destroyed by those things you support.

 

@DaveXR650

Here is a senerio to explain:

You have been working with a young woman who had been seeking an abortion. You explained why it is wrong and offered alternatives. She is almost persuaded, but reads this thread and realizes that you, as a Republican, oppose late term abortion but support abortion as a choice for the people to make.

You could try to explain to her that you only support abortion as a choice because another party would allow late term abortion and require all hospitals and states to perform abortions.

She then rightly points out that your position is not anti-abortion but pro-state rights (the people of the state can decide abortion laws, and in the future change those laws....abortion being a choice of the people).

She rightly concludes that there is a discrepancy between what you are telling her is right and what you are actually supporting.

Your witness is destroyed.

 

Probably because they are home schooled or in Christian schools.

My wife works in a public school (a middle school). My son recently graduated from high school (a couple of years ago).

We have a friend who's daughter transferred from a Christian school to a public high school (better educational opportunities for what she wanted and better sports opportunities).

They were terrified. She was scared. They had heard so much bad stuff about public schools, but we told them those examples were exaggerated and based off of public schools in the most liberal places.

She has been at the high school for 2 years and is excelling.

It depends on where you live, I suspect. Are the students in public schools more worldly? Some are....probably more than in Christian schools. In public schools you do get children that are neglected, and poor children, even homeless children. So it is a much broader environment.

 

By voting you are voting to enact a platform. You are actively supporting that platform.

You can't say "I support Trump for President but I do not support Trump doing what he has promised to do". We vote on platforms, on what each candidate states he or she will do.

It is not a flaw. You will be supporting abortion as choice and the normalization of homosexuality. You will also be supporting Trump's immigration and economic policy. You will be opposing federal requirements that hospitals perform abortion, transgender ideology, big government, and censorship.

But you will be supporting the entire platform with your vote. I understand that you do not want many of those things. But you'd be supporting them nonetheless.

 

Right now over 65% of evangelical Protestants believe abortion should be legal in most instances.

I believe that this is a direct result of secular politics. Christians have made compromises to their values to accommodate other things (with politics, the main priority has been economics).

With abortion and same sex marriage I was going off of what Trump has said, not the GOP platform.

The GOP platform removed its former stance against same sex marriage but didn't put anything in its place. The GOP also reworked its platform to oppose "late term abortion".

Seeking to move the nation to abandoned murdering her children cannot be accomplished through politics because the majority of Americans believe abortion should be allowed and the US government is representative of its people.

Same with normalizing homosexuality. 71% of Americans support Same Sex Marriage. Over 70% of evangelical Protestants support Same Sex Marriage.

When we join with supporters of these evils we look exactly like supporters of these evils. They profess Christ with their mouths but have ceased being "salt and light".

The only difference between your position is those people believe in what they are supporting while you don't and are just using your vote to support those things because you believe the GOP a better option.


Compare this to the position of Christians who will not compromise their voice, who will abstain from politics because they realize that to do so will mean uniting with causes they believe are wrong.

These Christians can remain active, but they act to try and help women who are seeking abortions to choose another way. They share the gospel hoping these people will be saved. They love and reach out with the gospel to the homosexual people, but they do not unite with that community because they will not be associated with sin.

And they are in a unique position to be witnesses of Christ to both parties without politics being a stumbling block.

Do you see what I mean?