Featured OSAS Trap

They don't care anything about what the early Christians believed, or the ones like Ignatius of Antioch (found in scripture) who sat at John's feet and was taught Apostolic truth. They hold on to doctrines that were never taught by The Early Church or believed by anyone before the reformers. Sad

 

@Cathode you can refer to all the ECF's you want but we Baptists will trust scripture as clearly stated.
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Notice that we are saved without being baptized. We are baptized because we are saved not so that we will be saved.

 

Have you noticed that you Walter and Cathode do not actually trust scripture but what some man has told you that scripture means. Really really sad.

 

Actually, as a Baptist I listened to what some man told me scripture taught every service I attended except that the church kept splitting over doctrine because apparently the Holy Spirit was leading some to believe the bible taught one thing and some others to believe another way. Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenia? Like tell me, is it limited atonement or un-limited atonement? Which one does the bible teach and explain why, please.

 

I did not say that but I struggle and then pray for forgiveness… however I’m still a child of God and will remain so. There is no braking that gift

 

I do not depend upon a man or group of men to tell me what the bible says. I have the indwelling Holy Spirit as my guide.

You continue to fight against the truth of scripture to your lose. You may not realize this but the ECF's were just fallible men. So the truth is that you trust "some man" to tell you what to think and believe.

From various threads I have been told that for the RCC there are actually three things that stand together as your final authority. Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium of the Church.

Is that correct? If so why do you think you need to add to the word of God your Tradition & the Magisterium of the Church and by what biblical authority did you do so?

 

Actually, you Catholics don't care anything about what the Apostles of Jesus Christ believed and testified.

Catholicism is Post-Apostle mumbo jumbo.

 

Did I say I was infallible, NO. I am not as arrogant as your Pope.

Notice I said the Holy Spirit guides me He does not control what I think or do. I am just a fallible man that will by times error in my understanding of or even ignore His guidance. That is why we still sin even though we are indwelt by God.

Your RCC has tried to run that institution by their authority outside of Christ and see where that has gotten them. The RCC in it's arrogance considers itself to be the final authority as vested in your Popes and they could not even agree with each other. So much for them being infallible.

When I error in understanding the Holy Spirits guidance that is one thing when your Popes through their arrogance decree that all RC's error in understanding scripture that is another.

I will trust scripture not the RCC distortion of scripture.

The writer of Proverbs delivers a stern warning to anyone who would change the written Word of God:
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5-6 NKJV

 

No indeed you can’t, but if your a card carrying Catholic you will absorb the BS… up until the time it encroaches on the lives, both mental & physical, of your family. And that’s when you rebel.

 

BTW, there is a reformed style church claiming to be an independent Baptist Church by me that has fulfilled their head count quota by taking on confused & searching ex Catholics and retraining them, a kinda reverse engineering in order to follow the scriptures vs church dogma. My own brother goes there and it has shaped him somewhat … except for the overt Calvinist bs which he rejects.

 

I have found that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me.

In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all true believers. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

 

In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. In the very next chapter, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14 and He connects living water with eternal life in John 4:14. Also, in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

Being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit, not the work of a man, therefore it is not water baptism. See John, chapter 3.

People do not get baptized in water to get saved; they get baptized in water to show that they are saved, to identify with the Lord Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.