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Understanding Christ's Intercession

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 29, 2024 at 10:43 AM.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:27 NASB
    and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

    Romans 8:34 NASB
    who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, but rather, was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

    Both these inspired usages of the Greek word translated "intercedes" are in the Present, not past tense, both are in the active voice meaning Christ is doing the action of the verb, and both the "indicative mood" thus the action is real.

    The problem in understanding is Christ died (past tense) once for all, and thus took away for all those washed with His blood, the sin penalty, past, present and future. So if our future sins have been already forgiven, what is the need for "present" action to intercede?

    After we have been "born anew" why does Christ intercede on our behalf? After we have been born anew, while physically living, we undergo progressive sanctification and earn rewards for effective ministry.

    God's will is for Christ to judge us perfectly, and He does with His justice perfected with His mercy. Some of us fail to engage in effective ministry, we still enter heaven, but bring little or no rewards with us, as someone escaping from a fire. Others, some of which earn the accolade "good and faithful servant" enter heaven "abundantly" due to Christ's intercession.
     
    #1 Van, Oct 29, 2024 at 10:43 AM
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2024 at 11:25 AM
  2. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Member

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    Sinful man cannot condemn sinful man. The one who condemns is none other than "the accuser of the brethren" Satan himself.

    Most think that Christ is seated at the right of the Father, and when the "accuser" comes along and says, look at what Charlie24 just did, you call that one of your elect? Then Christ turns to the Father, with the nail prints still in His hands, as says, Charlie 24 is mine, bought with a price.

    That's not actually how it works.

    Paul in his epistles and especially in the Book of Romans, tells us that when Christ was nailed to that Cross, we were nailed to that Cross with Him, when He died on that Cross, we died with Him. We have become a new man in Christ Jesus, placed in Him by faith. All of our past, present, and future sins have been forgiven us.

    Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Paul said that we are in Christ, seated with Him on that Throne. Eph. 2:6

    "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

    All of our failures in this Christian walk, Christ makes them His own, just as He did when our sins were washed away at conversion. It is automatic through faith, because we are in Him.

    That is not say that we don't ask for forgiveness when we sin, as John said. If we persist in that sin, surly God will deal with us as children, and His chastisement will find us and deal with us accordingly.

    Christ is our Intercessor by taking our place, making our sins His own, though He has never sinned.

    He does this for us in love and mercy. Who am I that Christ should do this for me?
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) The idea that the lost are condemned by God is not in dispute.

    2) No other individual was nailed to the Cross when Christ was nailed to the cross. He paid the ransom for all humanity.

    3) The fact that Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father is not in dispute.

    4) Since those spiritually born anew are "in Christ" they are seated with Christ in heaven. Not in dispute

    5) Agreed, since all our sins have been washed away, there is not need for Christ to act in our behalf.

    6) The command that we ask for forgiveness provides the necessity for us to recognize our sins and commit to repentance..

    7) Interceding for us has nothing to do with His substitutionary sacrifice as the ransom for our sin penalty. See the OP.
     
    #3 Van, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:34 PM
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2024 at 2:47 PM
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Greek word translated intercedes or intercession refers to a person speaking for or against an individual or group. In Acts 25:24 and Romans 11:2, the word is used for speaking against people, and in Romans 8:27, Romans 8:34, and Hebrews 7:25 the word is used for speaking for the benefit of people.
     
  5. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Member

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    Here we go again, like cats and dogs.

    Rom. 6:6
    "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

    I'm going to tell you something, Van, you don't know your Bible as well as you should.

    Don't continue with this endless arguing and make me really embarrass you!
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 6:6 fully supports the biblical view which I presented. When was our "old man" crucified with Him? When we were baptized into Him we were baptized into His death!

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Member

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    I agree! But read your Bible before you make corrections.

    Who we were before conversion was crucified with Christ.

    We are all human and make mistakes, but Van, you have a way of starting off the discussion on the negative side of argument. Just saying.

    Maybe it's because that's what I've learned to expect from you, maybe I'm at fault.

    Either way I feel it's just best that I not respond to any more of your posts.
     
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  8. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    We are crucified with Christ, that is, since we have union with Him in the Spirit, we died with Him in His death, and were raised from the dead with Him, through that union with Him. But we did not suffer with Him. He suffered alone and carried our sins in His own body alone, on the tree, and alone expiated them. Our union with Him was at His death.

    How we live out this life in Christ determines rewards or loss at the judgment seat of Christ, which is only for Christians.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Actually, it sort of is, less your embellishments.
    All that is true, but in Romans 8:34, we are told that Christ is at the right hand of God, and is interceding for us. The two verbs are in the Present Tense, which, in Greek, denotes continuity. Christ is constantly at the Father's right hand and is continually interceding for us. According to Hebrews 7:25, that is why He is able to save 'to the uttermost' as I have explained on another thread
     
  10. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Member

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    I agree, I have no problem with this! I just provided more detail.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Is Christ interceding to obtain forgiveness of sins or to obtain rewards of effective ministry? That is the question?
    I say rewards.

    Others seem not to say. :)
     
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