Understanding Christ's Intercession

[Van]

Romans 8:27 NASB
and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:34 NASB
who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, but rather, was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

Both these inspired usages of the Greek word translated "intercedes" are in the Present, not past tense, both are in the active voice meaning Christ is doing the action of the verb, and both the "indicative mood" thus the action is real.

The problem in understanding is Christ died (past tense) once for all, and thus took away for all those washed with His blood, the sin penalty, past, present and future. So if our future sins have been already forgiven, what is the need for "present" action to intercede?

After we have been "born anew" why does Christ intercede on our behalf? After we have been born anew, while physically living, we undergo progressive sanctification and earn rewards for effective ministry.

God's will is for Christ to judge us perfectly, and He does with His justice perfected with His mercy. Some of us fail to engage in effective ministry, we still enter heaven, but bring little or no rewards with us, as someone escaping from a fire. Others, some of which earn the accolade "good and faithful servant" enter heaven "abundantly" due to Christ's intercession.

 

[Charlie24]

Romans 8:27 NASB
and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:34 NASB
who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, but rather, was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

Both these inspired usages of the Greek word translated "intercedes" are in the Present, not past tense, both are in the active voice meaning Christ is doing the action of the verb, and both the "indicative mood" thus the action is real.

The problem in understanding is Christ died (past tense) once for all, and thus took away for all those washed with His blood, the sin penalty, past, present and future. So if our future sins have been already forgiven, what is the need for "present" action to intercede?

After we have been "born anew" why does Christ intercede on our behalf? After we have been born anew, while physically living, we undergo progressive sanctification and earn rewards for effective ministry.

God's will is for Christ to judge us perfectly, and He does with His justice perfected with His mercy. Some of us fail to engage in effective ministry, we still enter heaven, but bring little or no rewards with us, as someone escaping from a fire. Others, some of which earn the accolade "good and faithful servant" enter heaven "abundantly" due to Christ's intercession.

Sinful man cannot condemn sinful man. The one who condemns is none other than "the accuser of the brethren" Satan himself.

Most think that Christ is seated at the right of the Father, and when the "accuser" comes along and says, look at what Charlie24 just did, you call that one of your elect? Then Christ turns to the Father, with the nail prints still in His hands, as says, Charlie 24 is mine, bought with a price.

That's not actually how it works.

Paul in his epistles and especially in the Book of Romans, tells us that when Christ was nailed to that Cross, we were nailed to that Cross with Him, when He died on that Cross, we died with Him. We have become a new man in Christ Jesus, placed in Him by faith. All of our past, present, and future sins have been forgiven us.

Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Paul said that we are in Christ, seated with Him on that Throne. Eph. 2:6

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

All of our failures in this Christian walk, Christ makes them His own, just as He did when our sins were washed away at conversion. It is automatic through faith, because we are in Him.

That is not say that we don't ask for forgiveness when we sin, as John said. If we persist in that sin, surly God will deal with us as children, and His chastisement will find us and deal with us accordingly.

Christ is our Intercessor by taking our place, making our sins His own, though He has never sinned.

He does this for us in love and mercy. Who am I that Christ should do this for me?

 

[Van]

Sinful man cannot condemn sinful man. The one who condemns is none other than "the accuser of the brethren" Satan himself.

Most think that Christ is seated at the right of the Father, and when the "accuser" comes along and says, look at what Charlie24 just did, you call that one of your elect? Then Christ turns to the Father, with the nail prints still in His hands, as says, Charlie 24 is mine, bought with a price.

That's not actually how it works.

Paul in his epistles and especially in the Book of Romans, tells us that when Christ was nailed to that Cross, we were nailed to that Cross with Him, when He died on that Cross, we died with Him. We have become a new man in Christ Jesus, placed in Him by faith. All of our past, present, and future sins have been forgiven us.

Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Paul said that we are in Christ, seated with Him on that Throne. Eph. 2:6

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

All of our failures in this Christian walk, Christ makes them His own, just as He did when our sins were washed away at conversion. It is automatic through faith, because we are in Him.

That is not say that we don't ask for forgiveness when we sin, as John said. If we persist in that sin, surly God will deal with us as children, and His chastisement will find us and deal with us accordingly.

Christ is our Intercessor by taking our place, making our sins His own, though He has never sinned.

He does this for us in love and mercy. Who am I that Christ should do this for me?

1) The idea that the lost are condemned by God is not in dispute.

2) No other individual was nailed to the Cross when Christ was nailed to the cross. He paid the ransom for all humanity.

3) The fact that Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father is not in dispute.

4) Since those spiritually born anew are "in Christ" they are seated with Christ in heaven. Not in dispute

5) Agreed, since all our sins have been washed away, there is not need for Christ to act in our behalf.

6) The command that we ask for forgiveness provides the necessity for us to recognize our sins and commit to repentance..

7) Interceding for us has nothing to do with His substitutionary sacrifice as the ransom for our sin penalty. See the OP.

 

[Van]

The Greek word translated intercedes or intercession refers to a person speaking for or against an individual or group. In Acts 25:24 and Romans 11:2, the word is used for speaking against people, and in Romans 8:27, Romans 8:34, and Hebrews 7:25 the word is used for speaking for the benefit of people.

 

[Charlie24]

1) The idea that the lost are condemned by God is not in dispute.

2) No other individual was nailed to the Cross when Christ was nailed to the cross. He paid the ransom for all humanity.

3) The fact that Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father is not in dispute.

4) Since those spiritually born anew are "in Christ" they are seated with Christ in heaven. Do in dispute

5) Agreed, since all our sins have been washed away, there is not need for Christ to act in our behalf.

6) The command that we ask for forgiveness provides the necessity for us to recognize our sins and commit to repentance..

7) Interceding for us has nothing to do with His substitutionary sacrifice as the ransom for our sin penalty. See the OP.

Here we go again, like cats and dogs.

Rom. 6:6
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

I'm going to tell you something, Van, you don't know your Bible as well as you should.

Don't continue with this endless arguing and make me really embarrass you!

 

[Van]

Here we go again, like cats and dogs.

Rom. 6:6
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

I'm going to tell you something, Van, you don't know your Bible as well as you should.

Don't continue with this endless arguing and make me really embarrass you!

Romans 6:6 fully supports the biblical view which I presented. When was our "old man" crucified with Him? When we were baptized into Him we were baptized into His death!

 

[Charlie24]

Romans 6:6 fully supports the biblical view which I presented. When was our "old man" crucified with Him? When we were baptized into Him we were baptized into His death!

I agree! But read your Bible before you make corrections.

Who we were before conversion was crucified with Christ.

We are all human and make mistakes, but Van, you have a way of starting off the discussion on the negative side of argument. Just saying.

Maybe it's because that's what I've learned to expect from you, maybe I'm at fault.

Either way I feel it's just best that I not respond to any more of your posts.

 

[MrW]

Sinful man cannot condemn sinful man. The one who condemns is none other than "the accuser of the brethren" Satan himself.

Most think that Christ is seated at the right of the Father, and when the "accuser" comes along and says, look at what Charlie24 just did, you call that one of your elect? Then Christ turns to the Father, with the nail prints still in His hands, as says, Charlie 24 is mine, bought with a price.

That's not actually how it works.

Paul in his epistles and especially in the Book of Romans, tells us that when Christ was nailed to that Cross, we were nailed to that Cross with Him, when He died on that Cross, we died with Him. We have become a new man in Christ Jesus, placed in Him by faith. All of our past, present, and future sins have been forgiven us.

Christ is now seated at the right hand of the Father. Paul said that we are in Christ, seated with Him on that Throne. Eph. 2:6

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

All of our failures in this Christian walk, Christ makes them His own, just as He did when our sins were washed away at conversion. It is automatic through faith, because we are in Him.

That is not say that we don't ask for forgiveness when we sin, as John said. If we persist in that sin, surly God will deal with us as children, and His chastisement will find us and deal with us accordingly.

Christ is our Intercessor by taking our place, making our sins His own, though He has never sinned.

He does this for us in love and mercy. Who am I that Christ should do this for me?

We are crucified with Christ, that is, since we have union with Him in the Spirit, we died with Him in His death, and were raised from the dead with Him, through that union with Him. But we did not suffer with Him. He suffered alone and carried our sins in His own body alone, on the tree, and alone expiated them. Our union with Him was at His death.

How we live out this life in Christ determines rewards or loss at the judgment seat of Christ, which is only for Christians.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Most think that Christ is seated at the right of the Father, and when the "accuser" comes along and says, look at what Charlie24 just did, you call that one of your elect? Then Christ turns to the Father, with the nail prints still in His hands, as says, Charlie 24 is mine, bought with a price.

That's not actually how it works.

Actually, it sort of is, less your embellishments.

Paul in his epistles and especially in the Book of Romans, tells us that when Christ was nailed to that Cross, we were nailed to that Cross with Him, when He died on that Cross, we died with Him. We have become a new man in Christ Jesus, placed in Him by faith. All of our past, present, and future sins have been forgiven us.

All that is true, but in Romans 8:34, we are told that Christ is at the right hand of God, and is interceding for us. The two verbs are in the Present Tense, which, in Greek, denotes continuity. Christ is constantly at the Father's right hand and is continually interceding for us. According to Hebrews 7:25, that is why He is able to save 'to the uttermost' as I have explained on another thread

 

[Charlie24]

Actually, it sort of is, less your embellishments.

All that is true, but in Romans 8:34, we are told that Christ is at the right hand of God, and is interceding for us. The two verbs are in the Present Tense, which, in Greek, denotes continuity. Christ is constantly at the Father's right hand and is continually interceding for us. According to Hebrews 7:25, that is why He is able to save 'to the uttermost' as I have explained on another thread

I agree, I have no problem with this! I just provided more detail.

 

[Van]

Is Christ interceding to obtain forgiveness of sins or to obtain rewards of effective ministry? That is the question?
I say rewards.

Others seem not to say.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Is Christ interceding to obtain forgiveness of sins or to obtain rewards of effective ministry? That is the question?
I say rewards.

Others seem not to say.

It is quite clear that Christ's intercession is for our salvation. All we have to do is to read the words
Hebrews 7:25. 'Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him since He always lives to intercede for them.'
Isaiah 53:12, And He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.'

Christ is a complete Saviour. He saves His people to the uttermost. He saved us by willingly coming to earth and taking on the nature of a servant (Philippians 2:5-11).. He saved us by living a life of complete obedience to the law and to His Father's will, magnifying the law and making it honourable (Isaiah 42:21). He has saved us by paying the price for our sins upon the cross and satisfying the outraged justice of God. He has saved us by His resurrection (Romans 1:4). He has saved us by His ascension to heaven (John 16:5-7); and He is still saving us by His session at the Father's right hand, ever interceding for us.
One of the teachings that is rampant on this board and which I hate utterly is 'One saved, always saved.' Obviously there is a truth to it, but humanly speaking, it has brought as many people to hell as any other false teaching.. The Bible does not speak of OSAS; it speaks of the Perseverance or Endurance of the Saints (Matthew 24:11-13; Colossians 1:21-23, and especially Luke 22:31-32). What was the difference between Peter and Judas? Christ was praying for Peter!
Does the Bible tell us that once we have trusted in Christ we can live however we please? By no means! 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Neither fornicators, not idolators etc., etc., will enter the kingdom of God' (1 Corinthians 6:9-11): "Yes, but I went forward at a Billy Graham rally" "Yes, but I post every five minutes on the Baptist Board." 'Do not be deceived!' 'I tell you beforehand, just as I told you in time past, that those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God' (Galatians 5:21). We are not saved for wickedness; we are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10).
But if we have truly trusted in Christ - if we are His - then He speaks to the Father on our behalf (1 John 2:1). And He does not say, "Oh, he's not such a bad chap. He 'phones his mum every week and has a standing order to such-and-such a church" Absolutely not! He declares, "I died for that one!" And the Good Shepherd will assuredly come and save him, bringing him to repentance and the narrow way. But remember the people in Matthew 7:21-23. Christ did not intercede for them!

 

[Van]

It is quite clear that Christ's intercession is for our salvation.
SNIP

Yes, the second aspect of our salvation, Progressive Sanctification where we earn rewards for faithful service.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, the second aspect of our salvation, Progressive Sanctification where we earn rewards for faithful service.

You are confusing salvation with sanctification. Salvation [Gk. soteria] is the state of being saved [Gk. sozo means 'I save' and soter is a 'saviour'].. Sanctification Gk. hagiasmos] is being made holy [Gk. hagios].
But if it is helpful to you, our Lord's intercession is to do with the forgiveness of sins. 'My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous' (1 John 2:1).

 

[Van]

You are confusing salvation with sanctification. Salvation [Gk. soteria] is the state of being saved [Gk. sozo means 'I save' and soter is a 'saviour'].. Sanctification Gk. hagiasmos] is being made holy [Gk. hagios].
But if it is helpful to you, our Lord's intercession is to do with the forgiveness of sins. 'My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous' (1 John 2:1).

No I am not!

If you do not believe Progressive Sanctification is an aspect of Salvation, say so. Others, stop with your obfuscation.

Salvation is not just Positional Sanctification. That view is unstudied nonsense.

Does 1 John 2:1 refer to our present sinful thoughts and actions as potential sins? Ar Thus all our sinful thoughts and deeds are sinless in penalty. All our sins, past, present and future were already forgiven when we underwent the washing of regeneration? Yes we have an advocate with the Father, who has prevented any sin penalty and is helping us to become more Christ-like (obedient to our righteous calling) and to become more effective Ambassadors of Christ, begging the lost to be reconciled to God.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

No I am not!

I think you'll find you are.
I have shown you that sanctification is an entirely different word in Greek, but you don't care about that. Your problem is that you decide on your doctrine and then attempt to mold the text to fit your doctrine instead of drawing your doctrine from the text. You do this habitually.

If you do not believe Progressive Sanctification is an aspect of Salvation, say so. Others, stop with your obfuscation.

I don't know what you're talking about. Who are these others?
[QUOTE} Salvation is not just Positional Sanctification. That view is unstudied nonsense. [/QUOTE]
I don't recall that either of us suggested that it was. Salvation is being saved.

Does 1 John 2:1 refer to our present sinful thoughts and actions as potential sins? Ar Thus [sic] all our sinful thoughts and deeds are sinless in penalty.

You clearly did not read my post #12. The idea that because we have made a profession of faith we can live as we want is certainly unstudied nonsense and the horrible fruit of the OSAS error.

All our sins, past, present and future were already forgiven when we underwent the washing of regeneration?

But how do we know if we have really undergone the washing of regeneration. Read Matthew 7:21-23 again. The answer is in 1 John 3:4-9 and elsewhere in the letter.

Yes we have an advocate with the Father, who has prevented any sin penalty and is helping us to become more Christ-like (obedient to our righteous calling) and to become more effective Ambassadors of Christ, begging the lost to be reconciled to God.

You have turned the Lord Jesus Christ from being our Saviour into being some sort of personal trainer.

 

[Van]

SNIP.

1) The poster says he does not know what Progressive Sanctification is.

2) Here is a link to the supposedly mystery concept!
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...056&param2=84481&p=Progressive+Sanctification

3) The rest of his post is just the usual total misrepresentation of the biblical views presented. He seems to think the present and future aspects of salvation (Progressive and Ultimate Sanctification) are not part of being saved to the utmost. Utter nonsense.