Which Mystery Would You Pick?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just so you know, my brother approached me with this nonsence… I chased him off my property. He then went in my car and put in a Bible with all this evangelical paperwork… I threw it away and warned him not to bother me anymore. He was also annoying my mother and sent one of his churches elders to my mom while she was dying in the hospital…I threw the guy out of the room.

 

[Christforums]

Just so you know, my brother approached me with this nonsence… I chased him off my property. He then went in my car and put in a Bible with all this evangelical paperwork… I threw it away and warned him not to bother me anymore. He was also annoying my mother and sent one of his churches elders to my mom while she was dying in the hospital…I threw the guy out of the room.

Reminds me of when Martin Luther was approached and asked whether Supra or infralapsarianism was correct, Luther responded, "devils! do not bother me with your trivia."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no direct access to God, our access to God comes through Jesus Christ and our knowledge of Him comes through His word, specifically the Gospel.

I will remind you that Jesus Christ is part of the godhead. I read my Bible in order to discover his word but no man ever inspired me to read & study it. The will to read and study the gospel comes directly from God not man.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It isn’t “low state” rather it’s dead. So, I’m planting a Primitive Baptist church from the ruins of the Methodists, Baptists & Presbyterians who have been disfranchised…and I have approval from the PB’s to do it. No more evangelicals need apply. HOLY SPIRIT power & authority only.

I am delighted to hear it! However, if the Holy Spirit is not leading you to witness to the lost and call them to repentance and faith, I fear for its success.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Reminds me of when Martin Luther was approached and asked whether Supra or infralapsarianism was correct, Luther responded, "devils! do not bother me with your trivia."

Well yea, I applaud much of Luther’s work…in fact I might go visit the Lutheran church down the block from me in order to understand their practice better. I also study Judiasm in order to learn their practice more thoughly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am delighted to hear it! However, if the Holy Spirit is not leading you to witness to the lost and call them to repentance and faith, I fear for its success.

Define lost… are you referring to reprobates? I have reviewed my own salvation experiences and I have never been a Reprobate….Ive always been a Child of God but I’d never believe that coming from a human beings mouth. Without the Holy Spirits direct intervention Iwould have completely ignored any thought of salvation. And seriously, what of those who never hear a gospel from a Bible toting evangelical? Are they bound for hell….the OPC told me that. Frankly I consider that a complete lack of understanding of the mind & heart of God.

 

[Nolan Stengel]

Wrong ….the Holy Spirit regenerates…..he doesn’t need mankind to do his job.

Now you’re stating to sound like those Hyper-Calvinists that would say there’s no reason to go out preaching the Gospel to every creature, even though we are commanded to.

Sure, let’s all sit at home and let God do the work. No need for evangelization, no need for missionaries, I guess you think they are just a huge waste of time.

 

[Christforums]

Now you’re stating to sound like those Hyper-Calvinists that would say there’s no reason to go out preaching the Gospel to every creature, even though we are commanded to.

Sure, let’s all sit at home and let God do the work. No need for evangelization, no need for missionaries, I guess you think they are just a huge waste of time.

No, that's theological fatalism, for example, if G-d is sovereign why try?

Faith comes by hearing the word of G-d. But on the topic of reason, G-d took pity among peoples at times who reasoned among themselves. Point being, something can sound good or quite reasonable but be built logically on a false premise.

Your accusation for example and the reason which followed was built on a false premise. Concerning the mysterious will of G-d the term applies to what was not or remains secret rather than all of what was revealed. If somebody claims this or that was why G-d had and cannot provide a single verse to substantiate their premise then they perhaps are making an inference, and that's not necessarily wrong but could be nothing more than speculation. And there are a lot of doctrines founded upon weak, obscure, or vague notions. Scriptures which are vague are to be interpreted by the clear Scriptures, that's Sola Scriptura. The best interpreter of Scripture is Scripture.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now you’re stating to sound like those Hyper-Calvinists that would say there’s no reason to go out preaching the Gospel to every creature, even though we are commanded to.

Sure, let’s all sit at home and let God do the work. No need for evangelization, no need for missionaries, I guess you think they are just a huge waste of time.

Are you suggesting that God can’t do the work. And they are a big waste of time. Your time is better spent training up those who are saved.. I’m assembling saved people not those who are never going to be.

 

[Christforums]

Are you suggesting that God can’t do the work. And they are a big waste of time

Often times Peter is quoted for the basis of apologetics, that is, to be prepared to give a reason ... if asked. He suggested though nobody asked!

And there's no such thing as four-point Calvinism. Four-point Arminianism or inconsistent interpretation maybe but no such thing as anything less than 5-point Calvinism.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do object to the common idea of missions; namely, that eternal salvation is brought to individuals by the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel does not bring salvation but rather reveals salvation. It is "the savior of death unto death; and... of life unto life" (II Corinthians 2:16).

 

[Nolan Stengel]

Are you suggesting that God can’t do the work. And they are a big waste of time. Your time is better spent training up those who are saved.. I’m assembling saved people not those who are never going to be.

Then you are by definition a Hyper-Calvinist if you think evangelization is a waste of time. Yes, God does the work of regenerating the lost, but he also has ordained us as the instruments to accomplish His purpose. I guess in your case, you have been ordained to be lazy.

 

[Christforums]

I do object to the common idea of missions; namely, that eternal salvation is brought to individuals by the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel does not bring salvation but rather reveals salvation. It is "the savior of death unto death; and... of life unto life" (II Corinthians 2:16).

Today, zeal often precedes biblical education. Whatever is meant by Missionary, oftentimes funding for fun trips and talking about the Gospel is called Mission work. Somebody is new to the faith and on fire wanting to talk about everything biblical. Often times missionary work is filled by first year students or groups of people wanting to visit a foreign land and talk about the Gospel. What ends up happening are excited youth going and nailing together something or cleaning up areas that manual labor needs to complete at the expense of the congregation.

In some denominations a biblical pattern is the process followed, a missionary goes out where the Gospel is scarce, and if the peoples respond the missionary returns and an evangelist goes out to build a church. Then the evangelist fills the church w/ the office of Pastor.

Evangelist is a general term used today, Luke was an Evangelist and Evangelist appear and disappear throughout history as necessary and called. For example, 10 blocks and a church exist on each of the 10 blocks. Why the need for another evangelist to build another church?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Often times Peter is quoted for the basis of apologetics, that is, to be prepared to give a reason ... if asked. He suggested though nobody asked!

And there's no such thing as four-point Calvinism. Four-point Arminianism or inconsistent interpretation maybe but no such thing as anything less than 5-point Calvinism.

Well the 5 points are often misrepresented, however I see all 5 points in the scriptures. Regarding Calvinism, I don’t claim to be a Calvinist…they believe in infant baptism, I don’t. They have a past history of persecution and my Baptist community never did that… we were often the persecuted.

 

[Christforums]

Well the 5 points are often misrepresented, however I see all 5 points in the scriptures. Regarding Calvinism, I don’t claim to be a Calvinist…they believe in infant baptism, I don’t. They have a past history of persecution and my Baptist community never did that… we were often the persecuted.

Yes, often times Calvinist are mistaken as Padeo baptist rather than practicing Covenant baptism. And to complicate things Roman Catholics believe in Baptismal regeneration. If baptizing children refers only to baptizing children then I suppose a superficial observation is that I am paedo. However, I am actually Covenant baptism in theology, believing Baptism is the sign, seal, and mark of the Covenant and that the Covenant includes children. The seal is the promise of G-d to us, our children, and those far off and shouldn't be kept from them. That is not to suggest baptism guarantees salvation, if so every Credo baptism wouldn't result in an adult later turning away from the faith. But rather the promise belongs to everybody baptized in the timing of G-d.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Today, zeal often precedes biblical education. Whatever is meant by Missionary, oftentimes funding for fun trips and talking about the Gospel is called Mission work. Somebody is new to the faith and on fire wanting to talk about everything biblical. Often times missionary work is filled by first year students or groups of people wanting to visit a foreign land and talk about the Gospel. What ends up happening are excited youth going and nailing together something or cleaning up areas that manual labor needs to complete at the expense of the congregation.

In some denominations a biblical pattern is the process followed, a missionary goes out where the Gospel is scarce, and if the peoples respond the missionary returns and an evangelist goes out to build a church. Then the evangelist fills the church w/ the office of Pastor.

Evangelist is a general term used today, Luke was an Evangelist and Evangelist appear and disappear throughout history as necessary and called. For example, 10 blocks and a church exist on each of the 10 blocks. Why the need for another evangelist to build another church?

I’ve no problem with being instructed by the Holy Spirit to meet with people …or to plant the seeds for the propagation of the faith. I often meet people of other faith denominations to chat and discuss Christ but in most cases it’s not a mandate. But this accusation that I’m a Hyper Calvinist, well I consider the term to be a pejorative term used by ignorant people who are careless in their understanding of God. What I am is a Child of God and interested in perusing the path to God that He provides me.

 

[Blank]

I will remind you that Jesus Christ is part of the godhead. I read my Bible in order to discover his word but no man ever inspired me to read & study it. The will to read and study the gospel comes directly from God not man.

I will remind you that Jesus Christ is part of the godhead.

No need, I already believe that.

I read my Bible in order to discover his word

Last I checked, the Bible is the Word of God

no man ever inspired me to read & study it.

That type of conviction would have to come from the Holy Spirit.

The will to read and study the gospel comes directly from God not man.

Let me be true, as the enlightenment of His Word, or the understanding must come from the Holy Spirit otherwise a man can read and read until the cows come home and not understand a word of scripture. But since the Holy Spirit is God I will grant you that much.
Holy Spirit still points to Christ and no one comes to the Father except through Him.

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No need, I already believe that.

Last I checked, the Bible is the Word of God

That type of conviction would have to come from the Holy Spirit.

Let me be true, as the enlightenment of His Word, or the understanding must come from the Holy Spirit otherwise a man can read and read until the cows come home and not understand a word of scripture. But since the Holy Spirit is God I will grant you that much.
Holy Spirit still points to Christ and no one comes to the Father except through Him.

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I do not disagree with that assessment. But I am a scoundrel and a sinner. Only God has rule over me. I’m not some over the top idealist who judges others…only myself and I’m my worst critic of my past and evil thoughts I often have…so I’m human.

 

[Blank]

I do not disagree with that assessment. But I am a scoundrel and a sinner. Only God has rule over me. I’m not some over the top idealist who judges others…only myself and I’m my worst critic of my past and evil thoughts I often have…so I’m human.

Yes, simultaneously saint and sinner, as are all true Christians.
I.O.W. simul justus et peccator (simultaneously justified and sinner)

 

[KenH]

Ken, this evangelical movement reminds me of today’s Democrats, utterly pathetic failures.

And the evangelical movement is pretty much in the hip pocket of the Republicans, utterly pathetic failures. Of course, all human governments are failures and in rebellion against God, ever since Adam fell in the Garden of Eden.