-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
TheOneWhoLives
New Member
John 8:47 - He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Because you have to be of God to even believe in the first place.
Because you have to be of God to even believe in the first place.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Either because God determined who would and who would not believe or because each individual freely chose to either believe or to not believe,
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
But if you are already of God then what is the necessity of believing? There is none, your faith/believing changes nothing.
But that is not what the verse you quoted is in about anyway.
Joh 8:47 Whoever belongs to God {those that have trusted Christ} hears the words of God. The reason you {the Jewish leaders/people} do not hear is that you do not belong {have not believed that Christ is the Messiah} to God.”
Christ had just said to them Joh 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. The people were not deaf but the were unwilling to believe what he said.
Blank
Active Member
God‘s choice or our choice? Which do you think?
TheOneWhoLives
New Member
That’s not a valid question to ask. Scripture teaches that because one is of God that by necessity they will come to faith.
John 8:43 - Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
Notice, Jesus is pointing out that fact that He is speaking in the plain language that they can understand, yet His words mean absolutely nothing to them.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
According to the bible man has to belief before God will save them.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why is it not a valid question? If one is already of God {saved} why is faith necessary? It isn't. One's faith would make no difference at all.
Christ was not speaking some strange language. The Jews knew exactly what He was saying they just did not accept it.
Just as when we tell someone about salvation through Christ Jesus. They know what we are saying but many will not accept that truth.
TheOneWhoLives
New Member
You are thinking two-dimensionally. God's elect people experience salvation in time. This includes coming to repentance and faith and all the other blessings that go along with it.
They did not accept it because they are enslaved to sin. Only the Son can set them free.
Of course they can hear the words we're saying, but unless someone is of the elect, our words will go in one ear and out the other.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Reply
Christians are called chosen or elect of God
1. the messiah in called elect, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
Were there any Christians before the foundation of the world?
The only time a person is one of the elect is when they are in Christ and that only happens when they have believed in Him. There were no pre-chosen people as some are prone to say.
I agree.
Again one is only elect when they are in Christ not before.
Christians are called chosen or elect of God
1. the messiah in called elect, as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
Were there any Christians before the foundation of the world?
TheOneWhoLives
New Member
2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth
Of course no Christians physically existed before the world was made. But it had already been determined who would and would not be a Christian before the world was made.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
From the beginning of what? If you are claiming that God chose them before the foundation of the world then you have to read that into the text as it is not there. If it is from the beginning of the preaching of the gospel message then we see that clearly in scripture.
Since Jesus came to save the lost, and God desires all men to be saved (Luke 19:10; 1Timothy 2:3-4), we might say God intends for all to be a part of the chosen. Unfortunately, not all will respond to His calling with faith so as to be saved.
You base that on reading your view into scripture. Since God desires all to be saved and Christ draws all men to Himself and He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world why are not all saved? Are you suggesting that God is disingenuous?
If He had picked out all those that would be condemned from the beginning then why say He would draw them or desired that they be saved knowing full well that it was not possible?
God, before time, chose Christ as the Elect one and set a plan that those that through faith were in Christ would become the children of God, the elect. No one was elect prior to that point in time, and definitely not before creation, as one is only elect when they are in the Elect one.
Last edited:
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
However, it is stated clearly elsewhere in the bible:
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:3-4 NKJV)