• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Fight Against Free-Will Works Religion

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
The calvinist actually, by their own philosophy, can not make that choice as that would require a free will which they keep telling us man does not have.
Only God has a full free will, as we who are all sinners by nature are ,limitedn free wills, as there are things that we would never desire nor want to do left to ourselves
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
1) Having a closed mind is not the same has having been hardened!

2) You said we cannot agree on anything, that means you have closed your mind to anything I say. That does not mean someone else might not enlighten you.

3) The Lost are not free to believe if their heart has been hardened.

4) What does the phrase"mixed with faith in them" mean? You did not say. The idea is simply to place faith in the gospel, and so if you hear, understand and do not trust or fully trust in the gospel, it does not benefit you. This is like someone who is not open or fully open to embracing the Good News. But they were not like Soil #1 of Matthew 13, for they heard the gospel. Similarly, it is like those to hear but do not learn from the Father (John 6:45).

5) Limited Spiritual Ability refers to the correct and accurate biblical doctrine concerning "natural people," non-indwelt people.
Until and unless the Holy Spirit enables/quickens one to receive the gospel, to them its nonsense
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1) The Lost are not free to believe if their heart has been hardened.

2) What does the phrase"mixed with faith in them"in Hebrews 4:2 mean? The idea is simply to place faith in the gospel, and so if you hear, understand and do not trust or fully trust in the gospel, it does not benefit you. This is like someone who is not open or fully open to embracing the Good News. But they were not like Soil #1 of Matthew 13, for they heard the gospel. Similarly, it is like those to hear but do not learn from the Father (John 6:45).

3) Limited Spiritual Ability refers to the correct and accurate biblical doctrine concerning "natural people," non-indwelt people.

4) Natural people cannot understand spiritual solid food, but can understand and learn from spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.

The Good News provides the opportunity for many but not all to obtain salvation through faith in the truth.

We must not only hear and embrace the gospel, but God alone must credit our faith as righteousness, thus salvation depends on God's grace and not on our works. Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction, peddled by those who deny Luke 13:24.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

You know this is LOGOS, right? As in:

John Chapter 1

1​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14​

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

The written word is just letters on paper, it's inanimate, it can do nothing apart from LOGOS.
 
Last edited:

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Only God has a full free will, as we who are all sinners by nature are ,limitedn free wills, as there are things that we would never desire nor want to do left to ourselves

Do you not understand what free will is?

Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action (aka choosing “otherwise”). This does not require the person to be able to choose anything, nor does it require the absence of other influencing factors such as creation, conviction of sin, the gospel message, etc. It only requires the ability for a person confronted with a decision to be able to choose from among one or more possible options.
Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.

“God does not will which choice you'll make but that you'll be free to make it” a paraphrase of A.W. Tozer's quote

Our free will does not mean that we can do anything we want but it does mean that we can make real choices.

I agree there are things that we will not want to do but turning to God for ones salvation is something that man can both desire to do and can actually do and as we know from history many have done.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
You know this is LOGOS, right? As in:

John Chapter 1

1​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14​

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

The written word is just letters on paper, it's inanimate, it can do nothing apart from LOGOS.

No, afraid not! There are 2 Word of God's in the Scripture.

The Logos, the Living Word, Jesus Christ and the Written Word, the Bible.

Here's one of the many examples of the Living Word/Christ pointing to the Written Word/Scriptures.

Luke 11:28

"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

Hebrews 4:12 is definitely speaking of the Written Word. Vs 11 is speaking of the unbelief in the Word they had heard, the Gospel.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
No, afraid not! There are 2 Word of God's in the Scripture.

The Logos, the Living Word, Jesus Christ and the Written Word, the Bible.

Here's one of the many examples of the Living Word/Christ pointing to the Written Word/Scriptures.

Luke 11:28

"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

Hebrews 4:12 is definitely speaking of the Written Word. Vs 11 is speaking of the unbelief in the Word they had heard, the Gospel.

Let me see if I can explain this to where you can better understand.

The entire Bible is authored by the Holy Spirit, He gave all the words to the authors. Each author in their own character and personality wrote what they were given by the Holy Spirit. You can see the difference in the authors writing but it all came from the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 is a reflection of what the Holy Spirit can do with His words. He cuts to the soul and spirit of man with the Truth. Cutting through the total depravity of man. This is the only way man can be saved, when the Holy Spirit convicts with the truth.

The response to this penetration of man by the Holy Spirit determines if the faith will given to that man when accepts that conviction, or rejects it.

I wish I could explain it better, but I'm limited in my knowledge, not from God, but from myself.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scripture says the Word of God, our Bible, can lead the lost to Christ, but deniers say no, the lost need supernatural enhancement in order to understand God's written word. Galatians 3:24
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Do you not understand what free will is?

Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action (aka choosing “otherwise”). This does not require the person to be able to choose anything, nor does it require the absence of other influencing factors such as creation, conviction of sin, the gospel message, etc. It only requires the ability for a person confronted with a decision to be able to choose from among one or more possible options.
Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.

“God does not will which choice you'll make but that you'll be free to make it” a paraphrase of A.W. Tozer's quote

Our free will does not mean that we can do anything we want but it does mean that we can make real choices.

I agree there are things that we will not want to do but turning to God for ones salvation is something that man can both desire to do and can actually do and as we know from history many have done.
We can and do make some free choices in our lives, but limited as to which ones we can really decide to make
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Scripture says the Word of God, our Bible, can lead the lost to Christ, but deniers say no, the lost need supernatural enhancement in order to understand God's written word. Galatians 3:24
We are actually agreeing when we say that with Jesus, Paul, and the Holy Spirit
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
We can and do make some free choices in our lives, but limited as to which ones we can really decide to make
Well which ones do you see as limited?

Man does not have the free will save himself but he does have the free will to choose to trust in Christ for his salvation.

Faith/trust in something is always from a free will.

What do we have by/through "Faith"

Act 26:18 sanctified G37
Rom 3:28 justified G1344
Rom 9:30 righteousness G1343
Gal 3:24 justified G1344
Gal 3:26 sons G5207
Eph 2:8 saved G4982
 
Last edited:

Charlie24

Active Member
Scripture says the Word of God, our Bible, can lead the lost to Christ, but deniers say no, the lost need supernatural enhancement in order to understand God's written word. Galatians 3:24

You could pick up a piece of paper blowing down the street and if it says, "for God so loved the world" or "God loves you" or "Christ died for our sins" or anything else from the Scripture, the Holy Spirit can use that to pierce through the heart of the reader right there on the spot and lead him to Christ.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
You could pick up a piece of paper blowing down the street and if it says, "for God so loved the world" or "God loves you" or "Christ died for our sins" or anything else from the Scripture, the Holy Spirit can use that to pierce through the heart of the reader right there on the spot and lead him to Christ.

The Holy Spirit used the sound of the words of a hymn across the street to save Billy Sunday.

He was in a bar with his ballplayer friends and when they came out he heard the words of a song from across the street.

He left his friends and went into that old Missions Church and the rest is history on the life of Billy Sunday.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We are actually agreeing when we say that with Jesus, Paul, and the Holy Spirit
You are actually claiming the lost suffer from total spiritual inability and cannot be lead to Christ by the written word of God, denying Galatians 3:24.

Romans10:17 (NASB)
So faith from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Therefore, our faith is based on hearing Christ's message. When we read Christ's message, we can put our faith in Christ on the basis of trusting fully in His message, His gospel. This is bedrock Christianity!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You could pick up a piece of paper blowing down the street and if it says, "for God so loved the world" or "God loves you" or "Christ died for our sins" or anything else from the Scripture, the Holy Spirit can use that to pierce through the heart of the reader right there on the spot and lead him to Christ.
More denial, more rewriting scripture to conform to false doctrine.

1) False doctrine: The lost have no ability to seek God. Biblical doctrine, Luke 13:24, many of the lost seek the narrow door but do not find it.

2) False doctrine: The lost cannot hear or understand God's inspirited word. Biblical doctrine, Galatians 3:24, God's word leads the lost to Christ.

3) False doctrine: The lost suffer from total spiritual inability. Biblical doctrine, the lost can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Paul spoke to "men of flesh" (non-indwelt people) using spiritual milk.

Conclusion: The lost have the limited spiritual ability to hear and learn from God's word, the gospel of Christ.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
More denial, more rewriting scripture to conform to false doctrine.

1) False doctrine: The lost have no ability to seek God. Biblical doctrine, Luke 13:24, many of the lost seek the narrow door but do not find it.

2) False doctrine: The lost cannot hear or understand God's inspirited word. Biblical doctrine, Galatians 3:24, God's word leads the lost to Christ.

3) False doctrine: The lost suffer from total spiritual inability. Biblical doctrine, the lost can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. Paul spoke to "men of flesh" (non-indwelt people) using spiritual milk.

Conclusion: The lost have the limited spiritual ability to hear and learn from God's word, the gospel of Christ.

Here we go again, Van! Well, not exactly, because I'm not participating.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Here we go again, Van! Well, not exactly, because I'm not participating.

I have tried to follow the logic of Van over a number of his posts and quite frankly I am not sure where he is coming from.

At times he sounds like an anti cal then he writes as if he is a cal very confusing to say the least.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
I have tried to follow the logic of Van over a number of his posts and quite frankly I am not sure where he is coming from.

At times he sounds like an anti cal then he writes as if he is a cal very confusing to say the least.

Van, God bless his soul, I just can't communicate with him.

Likewise, I just can't understand him most of the time.

But it is what it is.
 
Top