Is Spiritual death a Biblical Concept then?

[JonC]

Spiritual death is right there Jon in Genesis, as Adam and Eve lost connection to God, lost relationship, became sinners by nature, and we as in Adam are under same destiny as he was placed under, the very same curse , and being spiritually deaf and dumb to very things of God is why the Holy Spirit MUST regenerate us into being able to receive Jesus and get spiritual life again

No, it is not. You bring it into the passage.

What does God tell Adam? That on the day he eats of the fruit he will certainly die. NOT that he would die on that day. And it is simply "die, die". On the day Adam ate of the fruit death becsme certain.

How do we know this? God defined this as "returning to dust".

BUT this was a result of sin (sin begats death).

What about separation? God did cast Adam out.

BUT God cast him TO the place he was formed. Adam was not created in the Garden


Adam dying spiritually is simply not in the Bible.

You have learned a theory and then gone back to the Bible to support that theory.

But what if Scripture actually teaches "what is written"?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

If it were a biblical term you would have quoted Scripture rather than "Got questions.org".

The Bible (just God's Word alone...."what is written") never mentions a "spiritual death" as in dying spiritually.

In fact, the Bible refers to life that is spiritual as being incapable of dying.

When I read the biblical text I see that God described death to Adam as "returning to dust". In God's warning to Adam I see that on the day Adam eats of the fruit he would certainly die.

What I do not see is God telling Adam he'd die on the day he sinned or that this death woukd be a spiritual death.

We also need to consider the fact that the idea Adam died spiritually is a relatively new idea. This is not how the Hebrews understood Genesis. It isn't how Chriatians understood the passage until later on. So we know it is not an obvious interpretation or addition.

I assume "Spiritusl death" as in dying spiritually is a free-will Baotist conceot?

Why do you make this assumption?

What I do not see is God telling Adam he'd die on the day he sinned or that this death woukd be a spiritual death.

(Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[JesusFan]

No, it is not. You bring it into the passage.

What does God tell Adam? That on the day he eats of the fruit he will certainly die. NOT that he would die on that day. And it is simply "die, die". On the day Adam ate of the fruit death becsme certain.

How do we know this? God defined this as "returning to dust".

BUT this was a result of sin (sin begats death).

What about separation? God did cast Adam out.

BUT God cast him TO the place he was formed. Adam was not created in the Garden


Adam dying spiritually is simply not in the Bible.

You have learned a theory and then gone back to the Bible to support that theory.

But what if Scripture actually teaches "what is written"?

I am, as its you reading back into the bible your own beliefs, as when Adam and Eve sinned, their sinless humanity becamre corrupted and sinful, hence no more relationship directly with God, and also spiritual dead now

Its all way thru Bible that sinners are apart from God. at war with God, cannot accept the good news apart from the saving work of the Holy Spirit, and are blind to the things of God now, as must be spiritually understood

 

[JesusFan]

Why do you make this assumption?


(Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Spiritual died that very day, and was now under curse of physical death also

 

[JonC]

Why do you make this assumption?


(Gen 2:17 KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Yes. In the day he eats of it he shall surely die.

NOT "you will die on the day you eat of it".

How do you interpret God's explanation to Adam that having ate of the fruit he would return to the dust?


My point is you are making an assumption, reading into Scripture.

And this is a relatively new assumption.

 

[JonC]

Spiritual died that very day, and was now under curse of physical death also

But that is not what the Bible says. You are adding a "spiritual death" to Scripture.

Why do you believe Scripture itself insufficient?

 

[JonC]

I am, as its you reading back into the bible your own beliefs, as when Adam and Eve sinned, their sinless humanity becamre corrupted and sinful, hence no more relationship directly with God, and also spiritual dead now

Its all way thru Bible that sinners are apart from God. at war with God, cannot accept the good news apart from the saving work of the Holy Spirit, and are blind to the things of God now, as must be spiritually understood

I am not reading anything back into the passage.

What I am saying is we should believe Scripture, not what you ate addng to Scripture.

For example, I can take a highlighter and highlight my belief in my Bible.
You cannot. You would highlight verses, but then have to add sticky notes stating what you really believe.

Why do you believe Scripture is insufficient without those additions?


There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is seeing what is not there.

 

[JesusFan]

But that is not what the Bible says. You are adding a "spiritual death" to Scripture.

Why do you believe Scripture itself insufficient?

How can you not see what is a biblical concept?

 

[JesusFan]

I am not reading anything back into the passage.

What I am saying is we should believe Scripture, not what you ate addng to Scripture.

For example, I can take a highlighter and highlight my belief in my Bible.
You cannot. You would highlight verses, but then have to add sticky notes stating what you really believe.

Why do you believe Scripture is insufficient without those additions?


There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is seeing what is not there.

There is original Sin, there is Spiritual death, there is Pst, all in the bible, so you are taking away from the bible IF not seeing them as being taught in there

 

[Zaatar71]

There is original Sin, there is Spiritual death, there is Pst, all in the bible, so you are taking away from the bible IF not seeing them as being taught in there

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What is a living soul? Is there a dead soul?

 

[JesusFan]

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What is a living soul? Is there a dead soul?

There is a dead spirit until born again

 

[JonC]

There is original Sin, there is Spiritual death, there is Pst, all in the bible, so you are taking away from the bible IF not seeing them as being taught in there

But those things are not IN the Bible. You cannot post a verse stating those things. You cannot highlight those teachings IN your Bible. Those doctrines fail the test we are told to use to test doctrine.

IF you try to remove those doctrines from the Bible nothing would change in the text of Scripture.


To absolutely prove this, once for all, I will state again....YOU CANNOT PROVIDE EVEN ONE PASSAGE STATING THISE IDEAS.

You admit it here as well....they are what you believe the Bible TEACHES.


And here you actually put yourself in the place of God. You said if I do not accept what you believe then it is taking away from the Bible even though those things are not actually in the Bible itself.

 

[JonC]

There is a dead spirit until born again

Nobody is saying the lost are not dead in their sins.

You were saying that Adam died spiritually.

You are changing your argument.

 

[Charlie24]

But those things are not IN the Bible. You cannot post a verse stating those things. You cannot highlight those teachings IN your Bible. Those doctrines fail the test we are told to use to test doctrine.

IF you try to remove those doctrines from the Bible nothing would change in the text of Scripture.


To absolutely prove this, once for all, I will state again....YOU CANNOT PROVIDE EVEN ONE PASSAGE STATING THISE IDEAS.

You admit it here as well....they are what you believe the Bible TEACHES.


And here you actually put yourself in the place of God. You said if I do not accept what you believe then it is taking away from the Bible even though those things are not actually in the Bible itself.

Jon, read this verse and tell me what you see. There is a contrast, what is that contrast?

Romans 6:23 KJV

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[Charlie24]

Jon, read this verse and tell me what you see. There is a contrast, what is that contrast?

Romans 6:23 KJV

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Is it,

Physical Death vs Eternal Life

Spiritual Death vs Eternal Life

Or is it both?

 

[Charlie24]

Is it,

Physical Death vs Eternal Life

Spiritual Death vs Eternal Life

Or is it both?

The definition of "spiritual death" is separation from God.

That would be just the opposite of Eternal Life, wouldn't it?

The wages of sin is death BUT...

 

[Charlie24]

The definition of "spiritual death" is separation from God.

That would be just the opposite of Eternal Life, wouldn't it?

The wages of sin is death BUT...

Seeing that physical death is the result of spiritual death, I surmise it to be both.

 

[JonC]

Jon, read this verse and tell me what you see. There is a contrast, what is that contrast?

Romans 6:23 KJV

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

I believe the contrast is the death sin produces and the life that is in Christ.

Another good example is the mind set on the flesh, which is death, and the mind set on the Spirit which is life in Christ.

The contrast is the product of sin (death, as sin begats death) and the gift of God (which is life).

Is it,

Physical Death vs Eternal Life

Spiritual Death vs Eternal Life

Or is it both?

It is not a versus situation. It is physical death and then the gift of God (Christ). Those who remain in their sins, who ate condemned, are so because they reject this Gift (the condemnation os this, that the Light came into the world and men rejected the Light because their deeds were evil).

I see the verse (Romans 6:23) not as a contrast but a truth statement.

Seeing that physical death is the result of spiritual death, I surmise it to be both.

I disagree....maybe?. Or I might agree....I'm really not sure.

You decide:

Physical death is the result of sin. The second death is God's judgment against the wicked.

If we use "spiritual death" to be the opposite of "spiritual life" then spiritual death is a mind set on the flesh. This produces sin, which produces death. Then there is spiritual life (Christ in is).

The issue I have is with those who believe Adam was "spiritually alive" and essentially killed God (killed or died to Christ in Him....i.e., Life).

It redefines too much.

Spiritual life is eternal. Being dead in our trespasses is not eternal (for those saved) as they are given spiritual life.

But if we are talking about the second death as being "spiritual death", then that is everlasting.

 

[Zaatar71]

How can you not see what is a biblical concept?

MAN ’S SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY AFTER THE FALL

Not sure who this is, found it on a google search,here is part of it. It looks solid;
At the beginning, God said to Adam, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17). After Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they continued to live a few hundred years. This shows that the death that God spoke of was not only physical death. The death of Adam began from his spirit. What kind of death was this death? The scientific definition of death is to be cut off from all fellowship with the environment. When the spirit dies, the spirit loses its fellowship with God. When the body dies, the spirit cuts off fellowship with the body. Therefore, for the spirit to be dead does not mean that the spirit is gone. It merely means that the spirit has lost its keen knowledge of God and is dead to God. Spiritual death means that there is no more fellowship with God. Consider, for example, a dumb person. It is not that this person does not have a mouth or two lungs. He cannot speak because there is some problem with his mouth. His mouth is dead to the human language. When Adam disobeyed God, his spirit died. The spirit was still there, but it was dead to God and had lost its capacity. When man sinned, this sin corrupted the keen intuitive knowledge of God that existed in man’s spirit so that he became dead to the things of the spiritual realm. Thereafter, man may have religion, morality, education, ability, power, and mental and physical health, yet he is dead to God. He can speak about God, conjecture about God, and even preach about God, yet he is dead to God. He can no longer hear or feel the voice of God’s Holy Spirit. This is why many times in the New Testament, God refers to those who live in their flesh as dead people.

 

[JonC]

MAN ’S SPIRIT, SOUL, AND BODY AFTER THE FALL

Not sure who this is, found it on a google search,here is part of it. It looks solid;
At the beginning, God said to Adam, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17). After Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they continued to live a few hundred years. This shows that the death that God spoke of was not only physical death. The death of Adam began from his spirit. What kind of death was this death? The scientific definition of death is to be cut off from all fellowship with the environment. When the spirit dies, the spirit loses its fellowship with God. When the body dies, the spirit cuts off fellowship with the body. Therefore, for the spirit to be dead does not mean that the spirit is gone. It merely means that the spirit has lost its keen knowledge of God and is dead to God. Spiritual death means that there is no more fellowship with God. Consider, for example, a dumb person. It is not that this person does not have a mouth or two lungs. He cannot speak because there is some problem with his mouth. His mouth is dead to the human language. When Adam disobeyed God, his spirit died. The spirit was still there, but it was dead to God and had lost its capacity. When man sinned, this sin corrupted the keen intuitive knowledge of God that existed in man’s spirit so that he became dead to the things of the spiritual realm. Thereafter, man may have religion, morality, education, ability, power, and mental and physical health, yet he is dead to God. He can speak about God, conjecture about God, and even preach about God, yet he is dead to God. He can no longer hear or feel the voice of God’s Holy Spirit. This is why many times in the New Testament, God refers to those who live in their flesh as dead people.

The issue is God did not tell Adam he would die on the day he ate of the fruit.

I say this for two reasons.

1. The English words do not indicate when (a precise day) this death would occur.

Consider the verse again - "but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”

On the day Adam ate of the fruit death would be certain.

Most rearrange the words, at least mentally, to justify Adam dying on that day.

2. God tells Adam what his action caused. God mentions physical death, but not spiritual death (which is odd since most who hold the theory believe spiritual death the most significant part).

3. If this refers to spiritual death then the Hebrew religion missed what some find obvious
They missed it for thousands of years.

4. Along with the last one, this spiritual death is not mentioned in the New Testament. Several times Scripture indicates physical death and then judgment and this judgment on the wicked being the second death.