Then what was James talking about when he was talking about dead faith? James 2
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Is God Patient With His Decree?
- Thread starter Baptizo
- Start date
How special of him. It appears God's faith in humanity was rewarded.
James is speaking of the evidence of faith. I'm talking about the faith. Are you saying you arbitrarily chose to believe? That's impossible. One is either convinced or not. What convinced you?
I didn’t say anything about random choice. Exactly the opposite.
“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”
Apparently the people he is talking to have belief that does not change them.
Another way this is said in Scripture is that “they knew God and glorified Him not as God.”
Would you say that the impartation of faith to your heart was a work of the Spirit?
That is a good illustration. The sign over outside of the Door says "Whosoever Will," and the sign over the inside of the Door says, "Chosen before the foundation of the world." My friend, you are not far from Calvinism. Yes, you chose to open the door because you found that you were willing.
[Philippians 2:13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Yes, but there are those that don't believe. Why do you believe? What convinced you?
I have done plenty of study and research.
The doctrines of Grace come straight from the pages of Scripture.
There is a lot of set’em up and knock ‘em down happening here. The problem is that the guy that gets knocked down doesn’t exist. He is a figment of someone’s imagination.
Example:
Why do you think that it becomes arbitrary?
People are not computers. It’s not about programming and information. You can repeat the same thing over and over again and it can still be ignored. I have seen lots of people do things they know will get them in trouble and they do them anyway. It doesn’t mean they didn’t believe they could get away with it necessarily. They did make a choice.
There isn’t a separate set of rules for life and salvation. I can choose to the extent of availability what I will eat. I can also choose to the extent of what I have heard, what I will believe.
Example:
I have already said that pertinent information is necessary to make a choice.
Why do you think that it becomes arbitrary?
People are not computers. It’s not about programming and information. You can repeat the same thing over and over again and it can still be ignored. I have seen lots of people do things they know will get them in trouble and they do them anyway. It doesn’t mean they didn’t believe they could get away with it necessarily. They did make a choice.
There isn’t a separate set of rules for life and salvation. I can choose to the extent of availability what I will eat. I can also choose to the extent of what I have heard, what I will believe.
Show me the picture of this hypothetical door.
This is not written anywhere in Scripture and would make God a liar to offer it to anyone when only the Calvinist club was invited.
Baptizo
Active Member
The Spirit was convicting me, but ultimately I had to exercise faith. There are many people who are convicted by the Spirit, yet they choose the things of the world instead. A good example of this when Paul was witnessing to King Agrippa.
Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
There are many tenets of Calvinism that are theologically accurate. The problem for me is that it's logical conclusion has issues in dealing with theodicy. There has to be some level of free will involved and that's what makes the most sense to me.
What choice are you talking about? The choice to believe the information you're given is true, or the choice to reject the information?
Yes.
Those are the generally accepted options for the same choice.
How do you deal with “chosen before the foundation of the world.”?
God has predetermined the events that will happen to the lost and the saved. So any that are in Him are chosen. Any who are not in Him are not chosen because it is Christ who is salvation. It is entirely dependent upon whether or not you are in Him.
I don’t see that the invitation is exclusive to anyone except mankind. I do see where angels are not given place for repentance.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
That is very useful insight.
Every person I know that hold to the doctrines of grace believe very similar things.
We are not robots, as some claim we believe. We are not saved before we believe, but we are chosen before we believe.
When God Holy Spirit opens our eyes, hearts, minds to the truth of our Lord Jesus Christ, we respond with faith.
At that point our relationship with God is one of Father/Child, King/servant, Master/slave, High Priest/Follower…..
We are “saved” because our relationship with God has changed. Where we once were under wrath, we are now under grace… clothed in the righteousness of our Lord Jesus.
Salvation is a work of God from start to finish. To claim any work on our part contributed to our salvation robs God of His rightful glory.
To claim the Gospel of Jesus Christ, His crucifixion, death and resurrection, is not necessary for salvation, makes God a liar and a mockery of the suffering of our Lord Jesus.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Sure, but the natural man has no desire or ability to choose the things of the Spirit, because his nature is enslaved to sin, according to scripture.
Just hearing the gospel cannot change the person’s nature to allow them to respond with faith.
They must be “drawn” by God Holy Spirit, they must convicted by God Holy Spirit of the truth of the gospel and their need for a Savior. And their very nature’s must be freed from the control of sin in order to respond with faith.
And all glory goes to God who demonstrates His mercy on His elect.
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The passage doesn’t say “in Him from the foundation of the world”, it says chosen from the foundation of the world.
Peace to you
Baptizo
Active Member
Sir, I never made such a claim and I do not believe that.
To claim faith as a work is counter the teaching in Ephesians.
Salvation is by grace, through faith, not of works. No one is believing their way to heaven outside of the work of Christ by the grace of God. God reached out to man, this is grace. Man accepts the grace offered by faith.
God seeks. Man answers. Some answer correctly and come God’s way. Others in their own pride will to come their own way. Without Christ they are lost.
The glory is God’s no matter what. God offers salvation to all. Those who reject Him will bow the knee anyway and be judged. The warnings in scripture are for all. If not God could have save a lot of time on the BB by revealing Himself to us as he did to Paul.
But Jesus came and was lifted up to draw all men to Himself. All men are drawn. Some always resist.