The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[JonC]

Well its a broad subject, and explaining can go on for hours, says even. But when something is clearly stated, thats a good starting point. My objective has to be show from scripture that the death of Christ actually saved them He died for.

It appears, at least on the surface, to be a broad subject. But I believe if we look at Scripture it is really much simpler than many allow.

Christ's death alone (separated from the remainder of what Scrioture says accomplished our salvation) is meaningless. You only end up with the Romans murdering a man. Our salvation is not only dependent on Jesus suffering under the powers of darkness. It is also dependent on the Father's vindication of the Son, of the powers under which He died being rendered powerless, Him becoming a life-giving Spirit....

A better statement wold be that our salvation is dependent on Christ's resurrection alone (as this implies the crucifixion)....or His glorification.

 

[Brightfame52]

You'll never be able to prove that from Scripture because it's not true!

The death and resurrection of Christ made it possible to be saved.

Even before His death on the Cross and His resurrection, faith in Him doing so in the future saved the OT saints.

You have totally and completely misunderstood what reconciliation means!

Its not my job to prove anything to anyone in scripture, thats above my pay grade, thats why the Holy Spirit leads into all truth. My work b4 God is to give a scriptural reason for my witness, to get people to see it my way is again not my job. For instance, God has sent some people a strong delusion so that they believe a lie 2 Thess 2:11

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now how praytel can anyone prove the truth to such a person ? Are they stronger than God ?

 

[Brightfame52]

It appears, at least on the surface, to be a broad subject. But I believe if we look at Scripture it is really much simpler than many allow.

Christ's death alone (separated from the remainder of what Scrioture says accomplished our salvation) is meaningless. You only end up with the Romans murdering a man. Our salvation is not only dependent on Jesus suffering under the powers of darkness. It is also dependent on the Father's vindication of the Son, of the powers under which He died being rendered powerless, Him becoming a life-giving Spirit....

A better statement wold be that our salvation is dependent on Christ's resurrection alone (as this implies the crucifixion)....or His glorification.

Thats your input. I see enough scripture evidence to say Christs death saved them He died for, at least from the penalty of sin. Free from the penalty of sin is an aspect of salvation you should not wink at and minimize. Its something to worship God in gratitude about. In fact, being saved from the penalty of sin sets the foundation for all subsequent aspects of salvation. For instance, to be reconciled to God by His death, ensures that the reconciled one will be made alive by His resurrected life. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The MUCH MORE is additional aspects or phases of salvation, like spiritual aspect, but the legal aspect happened way b4 that, reconciliation. You cant say a person isnt saved from the penalty of sin by Christs death because they aren't quicken until in the future. They still saved from the penalty of sin b4 saved by His Life. If you deny it, I think thats wrong and dishonors His Death.

 

[JonC]

Thats your input. I see enough scripture evidence to say Christs death saved them He died for, at least from the penalty of sin. Free from the penalty of sin is an aspect of salvation you should not wink at and minimize. Its something to worship God in gratitude about. In fact, being saved from the penalty of sin sets the foundation for all subsequent aspects of salvation. For instance, to be reconciled to God by His death, ensures that the reconciled one will be made alive by His resurrected life. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The MUCH MORE is additional aspects or phases of salvation, like spiritual aspect, but the legal aspect happened way b4 that, reconciliation. You cant say a person isnt saved from the penalty of sin by Christs death because they aren't quicken until in the future. They still saved from the penalty of sin b4 saved by His Life. If you deny it, I think thats wrong and dishonors His Death.

But we are not saved by Jesus death (as you point out with the passage above). We are reconciled through His death. We are saved by His life.

"Much more" does NOT mean an additional aspect of salvation (as evident by "reconciliation" vs "salvation" in the passage you quote).


Another way of putting it is that on the cross God was reconciling mankind to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them (the condemnation is the Light has come into the world and men rejected the Light) and it is on this basis that we urge men to be reconciled to God.


I get that "Christ's death" and "the cross" has been used in the past to indicate redemption as a whole.

My caution is that using such short cut language could lead people to believe that Christ's death effected their salvation (which is unbiblical).

 

[Brightfame52]

@JonC

But we are not saved by Jesus death

I disagree with you, and no scripture says that. I think iits a very Christ dishonoring statement. I have given you my reasons for that too.

 

[JonC]

@JonC



I disagree with you, and no scripture says that. I think iits a very Christ dishonoring statement. I have given you my reasons for that too.

Don't be dishonest - The passage you quoted said that.

Read what you quoted.

We were reconciled by His death and we were saved by His life.

Thus far the only passages actually quoted refute your claim.

You have given your reasons. But people have reasons for every belief they hold, regardless of their validity.

I think it best to trust God and His Word than man's reasons and man's reasoning.

 

[Silverhair]

False, the sins of them going to hell for their sins have not been covered by Christs atonement. Thats double jeopardy, unjust, now you insinuating God is unjust. The sinners Christ died for the penalty of their sin is gone. Its impossible for them to die in any sin they commit, Justice to Christ wont have it, sorry

I would ask you to explain how your view fits with 1Jn 2:2 but I have already seen you tread into that text your false views.

You are not trusting the word of God BF you are trusting your man-made religion.

Double jeopardy is not something that you will find in the bible BF, that comes from your twisted philosophy.

As the bible says God is not unjust, "He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

That is the condition for our salvation, FAITH. So while all men can be saved because Christ was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world only those that trust in the risen son will be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

You look at scripture and flat out deny it Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

How were they Justified ?

The New Test preachers used the OT to preach Jesus, the Gospel. Paul used the OT scriptures to preach the Gospel, Philip used Isa 53 the very scripture passage Im using on you Acts 8:29-35



Can a New Covenant Preacher reach Jesus from the book of Isaiah ?

The bible does not contradict itself BF, you should know that. Christ did bare the sins of humanity and made it possible for all men to be saved. Many will reject Him but many will trust in the risen Christ and be saved.

So what is your point BF? Should we only use the OT when you present the gospel?

How did Paul answer the jailer BF?
Act 16:30 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Did he say, well in Isa 53:11it says...?

BF why do you work so hard to deny the clear message we find in the bible?

 

[Brightfame52]

Don't be dishonest - The passage you quoted said that.

Read what you quoted.

We were reconciled by His death and we were saved by His life.

Thus far the only passages actually quoted refute your claim.

You have given your reasons. But people have reasons for every belief they hold, regardless of their validity.

I think it best to trust God and His Word than man's reasons and man's reasoning.

i have expalined my view to you. And There is not a verse in all scripture that says Christ death saved no one.

 

[Silverhair]

@JonC



I disagree with you, and no scripture says that. I think iits a very Christ dishonoring statement. I have given you my reasons for that too.

BF you have just proven once again that you will not believe the word of God.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

If you will not believe that then it is only because you have closed your mind to the truth.

 

[Silverhair]

Its not my job to prove anything to anyone in scripture, thats above my pay grade, thats why the Holy Spirit leads into all truth. My work b4 God is to give a scriptural reason for my witness, to get people to see it my way is again not my job. For instance, God has sent some people a strong delusion so that they believe a lie 2 Thess 2:11

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now how praytel can anyone prove the truth to such a person ? Are they stronger than God ?

That would be you BF as you continue to deny clear scripture and hold to the lie of C/R philosophy.

 

[Brightfame52]

I would ask you to explain how your view fits with 1Jn 2:2 but I have already seen you tread into that text your false views.

You are not trusting the word of God BF you are trusting your man-made religion.

Double jeopardy is not something that you will find in the bible BF, that comes from your twisted philosophy.

As the bible says God is not unjust, "He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

That is the condition for our salvation, FAITH. So while all men can be saved because Christ was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world only those that trust in the risen son will be saved.

The sins of people going to hell have not been covered, Christ is not their propitiation. Thats why they going to hell and are under the wrath of God. Eph 5:6

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Now how in carnation is Christ their propitiation ?

 

[Silverhair]

i have expalined my view to you. And There is not a verse in all scripture that says Christ death saved no one.

Odd that you require a negative comment but you will not believe a positive one.

 

[Brightfame52]

That would be you BF as you continue to deny clear scripture and hold to the lie of C/R philosophy.

How in the world is someone going to believe the truth when God sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie ? Guess what, anyone God has under strong delusion to believe a lie, will always continue to deny the truth, they have no other choice !

 

[Brightfame52]

Odd that you require a negative comment but you will not believe a positive one.

I gave a positive comment, Christs death reconciled them He died for , they are saved from the penalty of their sins, no sin is charged to the reconciled 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Silverhair]

The sins of people going to hell have not been covered, Christ is not their propitiation. Thats why they going to hell and are under the wrath of God. Eph 5:6

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Now how in carnation is Christ their propitiation ?

Obviously you do not know what propitiation means BF or you would not ask why the children of disobedience will suffer the wrath of God.

G2434
ἱλασμός hilasmos
atoning sacrifice, sin offering

The benefit of Christ's blood for the sinner in the acceptance by the Father. Hilasmós refers to Christ as the one who not only propitiates but offers Himself as the propitiatory sacrifice. He is both the sacrifice and the officiating High Priest

Christ was the sacrifice that was offered to God to turn aside His wrath so that He could be gracious / merciful; and ready to forgive the sins of those that trust in His risen Son.

 

[Silverhair]

How in the world is someone going to believe the truth when God sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie ? Guess what, anyone God has under strong delusion to believe a lie, will always continue to deny the truth, they have no other choice !

So you are justifying your refusal to believe the word of God by saying God made you do it.

Wow I have seen twisted logic but that is a new one.

But that flies in the face of His word
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So are we living in the end times BF? Has the lawless one been revealed?

2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Th 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

If not then you have no excuse for denying the truth of God's word.

Or are you saying that you have rejected the truth of God and are not saved?

 

[Charlie24]

Its not my job to prove anything to anyone in scripture, thats above my pay grade, thats why the Holy Spirit leads into all truth. My work b4 God is to give a scriptural reason for my witness, to get people to see it my way is again not my job. For instance, God has sent some people a strong delusion so that they believe a lie 2 Thess 2:11

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Now how praytel can anyone prove the truth to such a person ? Are they stronger than God ?

I would dare say that the majority, if not all Calvinists here disagree with you.

You're in a class of Hyper-Calvinism I'm yet to see here from anyone else.

 

[JonC]

i have expalined my view to you. And There is not a verse in all scripture that says Christ death saved no one.

It is wrong to prove a negative by its absence. There is no passage in all of Scrioture that says Christ's death alone saved. In contrast, there are passages that attribute salvation to Christ's life.

For example, there is no passage in all of Scripture that states Satan and Jesus are not brothers. By your logic Mormons are correct.

 

[Brightfame52]

The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:

They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !