Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
No See post 4 for what I accept as Truth
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For Whom Did Christ Die?
- Thread starter Mathetes66
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The elect, Covenant children, scattered worldwide!
all the elect are sinners , before God saves them.
All In Christ
Everyone of the seed of Abraham, who are In Christ, the captain of their salvation
Every believing one, the elect
Yes, not the jew only, any believing one worldwide.
everyone believing and continuing to believe= the elect once again, no one else
the sins of, is not in the verse
The elect were ungodly before salvation
the elect were unsaved sinners, even as others
Those false teachers who God saves
many, not All...
No, the children of God scattered abroad, worldwide,, Jew/ Gentile
Yes, the elect
Everyone believing...Good list Silverhair , glad you see it now!
2 Peter 2:1-2
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
These are sinners who were bought by the blood of Christ.
They deny the Lord that bought them and receive destruction not eventual salvation by reason of election.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
These are sinners who were bought by the blood of Christ.
They deny the Lord that bought them and receive destruction not eventual salvation by reason of election.
You only read what you want to hear.
They receive destruction, not salvation.
Of course, I just believe what Paul wrote:
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Do you see how this works Ben?
Paul wrote scripture, he added it!
I just believe it.
You can to!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Thats Christs Sheep He came to save and died for. They are the ones God the Father specifically gave Him as Per Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
That scripture Jn 20:31 supports limited, particular, effectual atonement.
Thats Christs Sheep He came to save and died for. They are the ones God the Father specifically gave Him as Per Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
That scripture Jn 20:31 supports limited, particular, effectual atonement.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Christ is the propitiation for the whole world, His death covered the sins of all of humanity and appeased the wrath of God.
If salvation was not potential but actual, as you have said, for all who are it's object, the whole world, then the whole world has been saved, that is universalism a heresy.
But when we look at the word of God we see that while our salvation is possible it is only through faith in the risen Christ that we obtain it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
No he doesnt see it, but thankfully you seem to see it.
It is evident in 2 Peter 2:1 that Jesus did pay for the sins of people who receive destruction and not eternal life.
The real blasphemy is that God’s mercy calls for all men everywhere to turn to Him, but you deny that God’s mercy is able to reach all sinners and that His blood answers for all sin.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Those that have freely trusted in Christ are those that are given to the son BF.
Sorry BF but you are wroong again.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Then you preaching universalism, because those whose sins God has been propitiated for are saved from His Wrath and Justified by the blood of Christ, and He is their Advocate, Attorney saying they are not guilty !
You still only read what you want.
I can’t believe it, no matter how much as you want to claim a proselyte.
You read meaning into the text. I watch you do it and it is not faithful teaching.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I find it amazing how much work the calvinuist will put into denying the clear word of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
They were given to Christ b4 they come and believe and why they believe. Notice Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
The had given them to Him before they shall come to Him. Shall denotes future tense, the giving was past tense
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Read the bible BF. Believe what it says not what you want it to say.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
But I dont believe what you say !
mt.20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
jn.17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine:
He bought the field, he can do with it what he wants.
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
Brightflame found all these scriptures once again. Do you like these scriptures SH?
Yes indeed. Jesus has purchased the rights to all flesh, if any are saved, it is because Jesus saves them. The others are left to face the just consequences of their sin.
Why do the false teachers, that were bought by Christ’s blood, receive destruction? This is not universalism.
You say constantly that people who you disagree with are teaching universalism despite being shown over and over that no one is preaching universalism. When you struggle to comprehend the facts on universalism, why do you expect any credibility? If you continually accuse others of heresy that is clearly not taught by them, why would you expect anyone to believe you in anything else?
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