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Must One hold to the Trinity in order to be saved then?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
It is according to the Athanasian Creed. 
Personally, I think the issue is more one of … “If God is not triune, then who do you say that Jesus is?”
If you accept the Trinity, then you have answered that question.
Romans 10:8-13 [ESV]
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
My Bible has the word “Lord” with a capital letter, so the DEITY of Jesus seems like an important part of salvation.
Personally, I think the issue is more one of … “If God is not triune, then who do you say that Jesus is?”
If you accept the Trinity, then you have answered that question.
Romans 10:8-13 [ESV]
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
My Bible has the word “Lord” with a capital letter, so the DEITY of Jesus seems like an important part of salvation.
Consider first, before answering the question, that centuries passed after the Resurrection before the doctrine of the Trinity was developed.
Were those early Christians who did not ponder the relatiinship between the Godhead saved?
Of course one dies not have to believe the doctrine if the Trinity to be saved.
And one could hold correct doctrine and not be saved.
BUT it is one thing to say one doesn't have to believe a doctrine of the Trinity to be a Christian and another to say that a Chriatian can deny at least a basic doctrine of the Trinity and be saved.
Were those early Christians who did not ponder the relatiinship between the Godhead saved?
Of course one dies not have to believe the doctrine if the Trinity to be saved.
And one could hold correct doctrine and not be saved.
BUT it is one thing to say one doesn't have to believe a doctrine of the Trinity to be a Christian and another to say that a Chriatian can deny at least a basic doctrine of the Trinity and be saved.
Groups that do not believe in the Trinity
One group: Christadelphians believe that God, is the creator of all things and the father of true believers,[32] and that he is a separate being from his son, Jesus (who is subordinate is to him). They reject the doctrine of the Trinity
One group: Christadelphians believe that God, is the creator of all things and the father of true believers,[32] and that he is a separate being from his son, Jesus (who is subordinate is to him). They reject the doctrine of the Trinity
"Must One hold to the Trinity in order to be saved then?"
Scripture does not indicate that the thief on the cross had any knowledge of the trinity.
(Luk 23:39 KJV) And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
(Luk 23:40 KJV) But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
(Luk 23:41 KJV) And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
(Luk 23:42 KJV) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(Luk 23:43 KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
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The Apostles were revealed that God was a blessed trinity by the Holy Spirit, so that doctrine was indeed held among the earliest Christians, as they knew Yahweh of OT as a Father, and now saw Jesus as His Son and the Holy Spirit as also God
If one denies the trinity today, they will have a different God, not the One of the inspired scripturesIt is according to the Athanasian Creed.
Personally, I think the issue is more one of … “If God is not triune, then who do you say that Jesus is?”
If you accept the Trinity, then you have answered that question.
Romans 10:8-13 [ESV]
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
My Bible has the word “Lord” with a capital letter, so the DEITY of Jesus seems like an important part of salvation.
My point is they did not hold (or deny) what we consider the fuller doctrine of the Trinity (God in Three Persons). That was developed over time, with the issue of "persons" being worked out through debates.
But that Jesus is God, the Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the Father is God....yes, they held this basic doctrine of the Trinity.
A lot was worked out through a process. And today many reject the fuller Doctrine of the Trinity (at least with other doctrines they hold). Calvinism is one Christian philosophy that rejects the fuller Doctrine of the Trinity - not directly but by other doctrines. Yet being a Calvinist does not automatically mean one is not a Christian.
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According to this article John Calvin endorsed the "trinity". Do you consider his a "lesser" form of the trinity as compared to the "fuller Doctrine of the Trinity"? I am not defending Calvin. I am confused by your view of Calvinism and the "fuller Doctrine" concept.
Calvin’s View of the Trinity
"John Calvin’s Institutes of Christian Religion, perhaps more than any other book produced during the Reformation, contains the clearest theological framework of the entire Protestant movement.[1] In his life work, the renowned pastor theologian declares, “Nothing could be more stupid than the trifling of the Arians, who, while acknowledging the divinity of the Son, denied his divine essence.”[2] In this volume, Calvin uses Scripture to refute Arianism and other heretical views of the trinity. Calvin’s view espouses that God is of one essence and eternally exists in three distinct persons. This view of the trinity is also consistent with major theologians of the 4th and 5th century orthodox Church because they believe the trinity is three distinct persons and one essence. Calvin’s view of the trinity is a plausible view because it is Biblical and consistent with the early Church’s orthodox view of the trinity; therefore non-trinitarian views of God must be refuted."
(2Ti 2:15 KJV) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I know he endorsed the Trinity. I was talking about Calvinism, not Calvin.
AND Calvinists DO believe in a doctrine of the Trinity. If you single out the fuller Doctrine of the Trinity they will say they believe it. But at the same time they hold a firmer belief in a contradictory doctrine.
That is what I mean when I say there is a basic doctrine (expressed in the Apostles creed), and fuller definition (expressed well in the Nicene Creed), even more developed in the Athanasian Creed.
Calvinists have to play around with the Athanasian Creed (with the uniting, Trinity in unity, eternal co-magesty, etc). A Calvinist could not write this Creed because they view the Father as punishing the Son, some even abandoning Him, even if for a millisecond).
But Calvinists will say they believe the Athanasian Creed.
Same with Jesus' nature. Calvinism holds the Chalcedonian Creed as correct. But at the same time their doctrine denies the Creed (they have to play around with it).
Had Calvinism existed prior to the 16th century it would have been considered heresy. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but the philosophy does not quite fit in with traditional Christian faith.
37818
Well-Known Member
How it is an essential needs to be understood.
Jesus has to have been a human, being someone other than God. And needs to be God in order to have been the sinless Man.
Luke 18:19, . . . And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
We Calvinists do NOT reject ANY Trinity doctrine, so please show to us what "fuller doctrine of the Trinity" we Cals do deny
Oneness and Modualism also, and Unitarians
Yes, he and all Calvinists hold to One God, Being< eternal existing in # Persons, each one themselves fully God, but still but one God, not 3 gods
Wrong, Calvinism was never seen as heresy, except by those who were heretics themselves such as arians, and there is no way you should be able to state that those of us holding tp Pst are making up a false God, a false trinity
Layman
Member
Is it necessary to believe in the Trinity to be saved? No, believing in Christ is what saves. However, if one is saved, they are going to grow in knowledge and should eventually come to believe that God is triune in nature. I'm sure that there are many who are saved on their deathbed without fully understanding what it means. It is those who adamantly reject the Trinity that we should mark and avoid.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Wrong, Calvinism as we know it today was seen as heresy be even a segment within orthodox Calvinism.
For a long time Baptists viewed Calvinism as heresy (called Calvinists "Romeish").
Before the 16th Century the Calvinistic view of the role of Father and Son was heresy.
It isn't heresy now because Christianity has moved to a broader acceptance. The only way Calvinism was able to take root was its timing (it was during the Reformation, and at that time various reforms of Roman Catholicism was being explored).
You shoukd study before posting rather than ignorantly objecting in a knee jerk way.
They are, without, trinatarian. But they reject the old orthodox reeds concerning the Trinity and the nature of God.
Calvivism is, in a historical context, neo-orthodox. It is a relatively new philosophy that is just outside of historical orthodox Christianity.
Making false accusations about anybody, much less Christians, is wrong.
I NEVER said, posted, or thought that those " holding tp Pst are making up a false God, a false trinity".
You just made that up and attributed it to me.
I REPEATEDLY said that I was a Calvinist for a time, and believed PST for most of my life, and was no more or less Christian at that time
I suggest you apologize to the board for making such a false and misleading claim OR you quote me posting that to prove yourself correct. Either is fine with me. Abd either would be taking responsibility for your words.
Your statement implies "all" Baptists were in agreement. I find that an improbability but not an impossibility. Just saying.
when you have 5 Baptists together - you will have 7 opinions!Your statement implies "all" Baptists were in agreement. I find that an improbability but not an impossibility. Just saying.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
In that case, it is strange that the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith is firmly Calvinistic. "General Baptists" (non-Calvinistic) slipped into Unitarianism, and died out for a time. (Now, I would say the majority of Baptists here in the UK are non-Calvinistic).
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
Yes it is essential. That isn't to say one has to know/understand the Trinity to be saved. But an outright denial is to deny God.