For Whom Did Christ Die?

[Silverhair]

There is no other propitiation available. He is an actual propitiation, not a potential one

That is what I said ZA. Did you not read what I wrote?

Christ was the actual propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Which means that all have the potential to be saved but only those that freely trust in Him, will be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

False

What is false BF?

 

[Zaatar71]

That is what I said ZA. Did you not read what I wrote?

Christ was the actual propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

I read the error you posted Silverhair! If Jesus turned the wrath away from these unsaved persons, they would not be cast into hell to experience it at the WTJ:

Which means that all have the potential to be saved but only those that freely trust in Him, will be saved.

No... We who believe have been saved, not potentially, but actually.
If a life guard runs in to save a drowning swimmer, but drags out a corpse, would you say, He saved them?

 

[Silverhair]

I read the error you posted Silverhair! If Jesus turned the wrath away from these unsaved persons, they would not be cast into hell to experience it at the WTJ:

No... We who believe have been saved, not potentially, but actually.
If a life guard runs in to save a drowning swimmer, but drags out a corpse, would you say, He saved them?

Definition you need to know
Propitiation The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of one making propitious. {in biblical theology, God} 1Jn_2:2
Propitious Disposed to be gracious or merciful; ready to forgive sins and bestow blessings; applied to God. Webster

Try to remember these ZA as it will clear up a number of you false ideas.

We are saved by the risen Christ not by His death ZA.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

Note what it say about the gospel ZA.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

This is the gospel ZA. You and BF have the same problem, you read vs 3 and ignore vs 4.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Note what Paul wrote ZA.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

And just in case you are not sure who can be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Now of course you are going to disagree with these but the Holy Spirit knowing that you calvinists would object had Paul write it out even more clearly.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
That's the question ZA.
And here is the answer.
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

So we see in scripture that Christ was the propitiation for the whole world so all could be saved.

But only those that actually freely trust in the risen Christ will be saved.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

You may fuss and fume and say but that is not what my calvinist teachers taught me but that is what the Holy Spirit tells us ZA.

So you have to decide are you going to follow your teachers or God?

 

[Ben1445]

Yes, He actually is the propitiation for the elect sinner, anywhere in the world. When any sinner trusts God by a God given faith it shows they are elect

Always tacking your own gospel on the back.

 

[Ben1445]

You doing a lot of talking but havent proved one shred of biblical evidence that states 2 Pet 2:1 s bought with the blood of Christ.

Its up to whoever bought up 2 Pet 2:1 to explain or show why they say its the blood of Christ here when it doesnt specify that.

The Whole Bible points to it. There is no other purchase of God.
If you think it refers to something else you have to come up with whatever that is.
You will probably end up with credit for starting the next cult if you do.
If you end up doing that, just remember, if you leave the BB, you won’t be my BF anymore.

 

[Silverhair]

Always tacking your own gospel on the back.

That is the problem we see with the calvinist view. They cannot just trust what the bible says they have to then add to it something that some calvinist teacher has told them.

 

[Ben1445]

Thats false. Christ said He had Sheep that were yet to hear His voice and believe Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Other gentile believers. This is not unsaved people. Unsaved are not sheep. They are the goats. Unless you believe that each man starts out sinless, leaves God and becomes lost so that he can be found again.

 

[Silverhair]

The Whole Bible points to it. There is no other purchase of God.
If you think it refers to something else you have to come up with whatever that is.
You will probably end up with credit for starting the next cult if you do.
If you end up doing that, just remember, if you leave the BB, you won’t be my BF anymore.

@Ben1445 he cannot come up with something else. What does he think bought means?

BF has to prove the word of God is wrong.

 

[Ben1445]

@Ben1445 he cannot come up with something else. What does he think bought means?

BF has to prove the word of God is wrong.

It is a hard thing to face the idea that Scripture tells you that you have been teaching a nuanced doctrine that is wrong.

 

[Brightfame52]

What is false BF?

Pay attention

 

[Brightfame52]

The Whole Bible points to it. There is no other purchase of God.
If you think it refers to something else you have to come up with whatever that is.
You will probably end up with credit for starting the next cult if you do.
If you end up doing that, just remember, if you leave the BB, you won’t be my BF anymore.

The whole bible points to it, yet its nowhere found in the bible stated, thats a neat trick

 

[Brightfame52]

Other gentile believers. This is not unsaved people. Unsaved are not sheep. They are the goats. Unless you believe that each man starts out sinless, leaves God and becomes lost so that he can be found again.

They weren't believers, the hearing of His voice had not happen, for it was future.

 

[Ben1445]

The whole bible points to it, yet its nowhere found in the bible stated, thats a neat trick

I am sorry, I had no idea that you were so unfamiliar with Scripture. Give me a moment and I’ll get it for you.

 

[Ben1445]

They weren't believers, the hearing of His voice had not happen, for it was future.

Because God has no idea what happens in the future?
Believers past present and future hear the Words of Christ and follow Him.
It has to be spelled out word for word for every man’s experience of salvation?

 

[Brightfame52]

I am sorry, I had no idea that you were so unfamiliar with Scripture. Give me a moment and I’ll get it for you.

Excuse me, its my being familiar with scripture that I know what you stated isnt in scripture duh

 

[Brightfame52]

Because God has no idea what happens in the future?
Believers past present and future hear the Words of Christ and follow Him.
It has to be spelled out word for word for every man’s experience of salvation?

You cant understand the simple future tense and present tense. How are they already believers when faith cometh by hearing, and they had not yet heard His voice ? Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have[present tense], which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear[future tense] my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Believing follows hearing Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

 

[Ben1445]

You cant understand the simple future tense and present tense. How are they already believers when faith cometh by hearing, and they had not yet heard His voice ? Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have[present tense], which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear[future tense] my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Believing follows hearing Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

John 10, sheep/ Shepherd illustration is talking about why people follow Christ and not the false teachings/ doctrines of men.

They are already sheep, believing, saved individuals when they hear his voice and follow Him. Those who don't follow Him are not His sheep (saved, presently believing people).
There is no such thing as an unsaved sheep in John 10. This is not the parable of the lost sheep. That is a different teaching with a different lesson.
Jesus was teaching that believers recognize false teachers because they are following Christ. They are not following Christ before they are saved because they are dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Ben1445]

Excuse me, its my being familiar with scripture that I know what you stated isnt in scripture duh

1Pe 1:13 ¶ Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Brightfame52]

John 10, sheep/ Shepherd illustration is talking about why people follow Christ and not the false teachings/ doctrines of men.

They are already sheep, believing, saved individuals when they hear his voice and follow Him. Those who don't follow Him are not His sheep (saved, presently believing people).
There is no such thing as an unsaved sheep in John 10. This is not the parable of the lost sheep. That is a different teaching with a different lesson.
Jesus was teaching that believers recognize false teachers because they are following Christ. They are not following Christ before they are saved because they are dead in trespasses and sins.

Again you cant understand the simple tenses of scripture, you need not to be quick to speak friend.