Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

[Silverhair]

Im just giving you scripture and you resist

Actually you are using one verse that needs to be read and understood in the context of Rom 5:12-21. You are not doing that BF. You are pulling that verse of of it's context and yet claiming it is in context. You have a strange idea of context.

As I have asked you before, try to support your view in context BF, you cannot but at least then you would see why your view is wrong.

 

[Ben1445]

Huh ? Where did all this come from ? The all of Rom 5:18b have been given Justification of life. All men are not justified Some are unjust on their way to hell Rev 22 11

I took the illustration from the words given in the verse. They are not given justification. You edit out in your post an important part. They are given a gift. If it said all were justified then we might have something else to talk about. The gift is not justification. It is unto justification. It leads to justification.
For some reason you think that a gift is received involuntarily like a punch in the face. To some people, that is how they feel about Christ. Christ is as offensive as a punch in the face because they are (may I mix metaphors) “kicking against the pricks.” (Acts 9:5) They are against Christ.
I think it was Billy Sunday who said that people told him that he rubbed the cat the wrong way. His response was “Turn the cat around!”
Salvation is offered, not determined.

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

See that ? He that has not been Justified by Christ Rom 5:18b must remain that way. "let him be unjust still" is a imperative, a command, he wont be getting any invites to the party lol

It’s not a funny thing at all.
If God’s Word can’t move you, what will?
God doesn’t command anyone to continue in sin. That would make His command an endorsement. They would be obeying God by sinning.
You have some strange ideas about theology. They are at least not thought out to their ends.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually you are using one verse that needs to be read and understood in the context of Rom 5:12-21. You are not doing that BF. You are pulling that verse of of it's context and yet claiming it is in context. You have a strange idea of context.

As I have asked you before, try to support your view in context BF, you cannot but at least then you would see why your view is wrong.

Im using one verse that is within the context of what I have already read. I have read Rom 5 perhaps 100 times, i have been through the entire book chapter by chapter, verse by verse 5 or 6 times over the years, so what are you talking about ?

 

[Brightfame52]

I took the illustration from the words given in the verse. They are not given justification. You edit out in your post an important part. They are given a gift. If it said all were justified then we might have something else to talk about. The gift is not justification. It is unto justification. It leads to justification.
For some reason you think that a gift is received involuntarily like a punch in the face. To some people, that is how they feel about Christ. Christ is as offensive as a punch in the face because they are (may I mix metaphors) “kicking against the pricks.” (Acts 9:5) They are against Christ.
I think it was Billy Sunday who said that people told him that he rubbed the cat the wrong way. His response was “Turn the cat around!”
Salvation is offered, not determined.



It’s not a funny thing at all.
If God’s Word can’t move you, what will?
God doesn’t command anyone to continue in sin. That would make His command an endorsement. They would be obeying God by sinning.
You have some strange ideas about theology. They are at least not thought out to their ends.

You dont get it. They are Justified in Rom 5:18b .. Because of the righteousness of one all received Justification of life. Justification is limited to Gods elect Rom 8:30,33-34

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So the Justified in Rom 5:18b are the elect of God, all of THEM

 

[Brightfame52]

@Ben1445

I took the illustration from the words given in the verse. They are not given justification. You edit out in your post an important part. They are given a gift. If it said all were justified then we might have something else to talk about. The gift is not justification. It is unto justification. It leads to justification.
For some reason you think that a gift is received involuntarily like a punch in the face. To some people, that is how they feel about Christ. Christ is as offensive as a punch in the face because they are (may I mix metaphors) “kicking against the pricks.” (Acts 9:5) They are against Christ.
I think it was Billy Sunday who said that people told him that he rubbed the cat the wrong way. His response was “Turn the cat around!”
Salvation is offered, not determined.

Your understanding of gifts is worldly and from a natural carnal man perspective. Gifts in Salvation are Spiritual matters, they are imputed and imparted. Justification of life, a Gift is something legal, it occurs in the heavenlies, it was a legal matter between the Father and Son, because of the Sons work on behalf of the elect, putting away their sins, they as a Gift of Grace and Justice, are Justified freely Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Its a Gift Justification freely by Grace

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

They received it without even knowing it, they were not even born yet when Christ transacted for them and Justified them. Its a Gift by Imputation, God put righteousness/justification on their account in heaven, this was b4 they were in their mothers womb

Its a Gift of Righteousness, but its not offered, its legally true based on Christ bearing their sins Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[Ben1445]

You dont get it. They are Justified in Rom 5:18b .. Because of the righteousness of one all received Justification of life. Justification is limited to Gods elect Rom 8:30,33-34

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So the Justified in Rom 5:18b are the elect of God, all of THEM

You don’t get it. Anyone who is justified is God’s elect. Elect to be the sons of God.

It doesn’t say all receive justification. You keep rearranging it to say that to protect your definition of all means some.

The gift is unto justification; it takes you there.
Nobody is saying unbelievers are justified.

You are ranting on and on as if someone has said that unbelievers are justified. I haven’t read it. You gloss over the real question and make a big argument about something that nobody is arguing.
(I know what you mean by what you say, but what you say doesn’t mean what you mean)

 

[Ben1445]

@Ben1445



Your understanding of gifts is worldly and from a natural carnal man perspective. Gifts in Salvation are Spiritual matters, they are imputed and imparted. Justification of life, a Gift is something legal, it occurs in the heavenlies, it was a legal matter between the Father and Son, because of the Sons work on behalf of the elect, putting away their sins, they as a Gift of Grace and Justice, are Justified freely Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Its a Gift Justification freely by Grace

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

They received it without even knowing it, they were not even born yet when Christ transacted for them and Justified them. Its a Gift by Imputation, God put righteousness/justification on their account in heaven, this was b4 they were in their mothers womb

Its a Gift of Righteousness, but its not offered, its legally true based on Christ bearing their sins Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Scripture is not of private interpretation. There is no spiritual dictionary that is inaccessible to the unsaved. The translation is in English and the words used in it are used for understanding, not obfuscation.
We disagree about why sin is imputed and grace imparted. God didn’t cause sin. If He determined it to happen, He would be the cause. God doesn’t also bestow grace like a pie in the face.

 

[Silverhair]

Im using one verse that is within the context of what I have already read. I have read Rom 5 perhaps 100 times, i have been through the entire book chapter by chapter, verse by verse 5 or 6 times over the years, so what are you talking about ?

BF I am going to try explaining what I mean by looking at the context via use of 1 John 4:4.

You’re probably familiar with the line:
“Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.”.

Most people who quote this mean that since God is in you you can overcome the devil or anything else in the world. Which is a biblically true understanding. But was that John's intended meaning of this particular passage?

First we have to realize that the quote is not even the full verse
"You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world."

Who are the “them” the believers have overcome?
For the answer we have to read the verse in the context of the rest of the passage. 1Jn 4:1-6.

1Jn 4:1-3 tells us about the importance of testing the spirits because not all are from God, some are false prophets who are of the spirit of antichrist which is already in the world.

1Jn 4:5–6 are about discerning the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

But why did John write this passage? For the answer we have to look at the whole letter. The body had been disturbed because some had been lead away by other teachers. How could they know what the truth was?

John wrote to assure them of the truth about genuine fellowship with Jesus Christ—that you can know for sure if you’re in Christ, and you can know what is true.

So, the key verse is in the context of practicing discernment.Not that we can overcome any obstacle in front of us, or that we are better than anyone else.

It is about discerning truth from lies. Or as Charles Spurgeon put it
“DISCERNMENT is not simply telling the difference between what is Right and Wrong; rather, it is the difference between Right and Almost right.”

I say all this to point out that you need to understand Rom 5:18 in the overall context of the passage in which it is found Rom 5:12-21. Which is something that you have not done.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Ben1445

You don’t get it. Anyone who is justified is God’s elect. Elect to be the sons of God.

You have to be Gods elect for God to Justify you.

 

[Brightfame52]

Scripture is not of private interpretation. There is no spiritual dictionary that is inaccessible to the unsaved. The translation is in English and the words used in it are used for understanding, not obfuscation.
We disagree about why sin is imputed and grace imparted. God didn’t cause sin. If He determined it to happen, He would be the cause. God doesn’t also bestow grace like a pie in the face.

As stated your concept of Spiritual Gift is carnal, no spiritual understanding.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF I am going to try explaining what I mean by looking at the context via use of 1 John 4:4.

You’re probably familiar with the line:
“Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.”.

Most people who quote this mean that since God is in you you can overcome the devil or anything else in the world. Which is a biblically true understanding. But was that John's intended meaning of this particular passage?

First we have to realize that the quote is not even the full verse
"You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world."

Who are the “them” the believers have overcome?
For the answer we have to read the verse in the context of the rest of the passage. 1Jn 4:1-6.

1Jn 4:1-3 tells us about the importance of testing the spirits because not all are from God, some are false prophets who are of the spirit of antichrist which is already in the world.

1Jn 4:5–6 are about discerning the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

But why did John write this passage? For the answer we have to look at the whole letter. The body had been disturbed because some had been lead away by other teachers. How could they know what the truth was?

John wrote to assure them of the truth about genuine fellowship with Jesus Christ—that you can know for sure if you’re in Christ, and you can know what is true.

So, the key verse is in the context of practicing discernment.Not that we can overcome any obstacle in front of us, or that we are better than anyone else.

It is about discerning truth from lies. Or as Charles Spurgeon put it
“DISCERNMENT is not simply telling the difference between what is Right and Wrong; rather, it is the difference between Right and Almost right.”

I say all this to point out that you need to understand Rom 5:18 in the overall context of the passage in which it is found Rom 5:12-21. Which is something that you have not done.

Those of Rom 5:18b the all are Justified, so its limited Justification to the elect. The word all just means all the elect. What Christ did for them, resulted in Justification of life. Like NKJV has it

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Now if someone is at this present time, unjust unfortunately they never belonged to the all men of Rom 5:18b

The unjust are doomed still Rev 22 11


He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Ben1445]

@Ben1445



You have to be Gods elect for God to Justify you.

You are reading backwards again.

 

[Ben1445]

Those of Rom 5:18b the all are Justified, so its limited Justification to the elect. The word all just means all the elect. What Christ did for them, resulted in Justification of life. Like NKJV has it

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Now if someone is at this present time, unjust unfortunately they never belonged to the all men of Rom 5:18b

The unjust are doomed still Rev 22 11


He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Yes. You are correct. In the new earth new Jerusalem, there is no hope of anyone ever being justified out of the lake of fire.
Now is the acceptable time. Today is the day of salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

Those of Rom 5:18b the all are Justified, so its limited Justification to the elect. The word all just means all the elect. What Christ did for them, resulted in Justification of life. Like NKJV has it

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Now if someone is at this present time, unjust unfortunately they never belonged to the all men of Rom 5:18b

The unjust are doomed still Rev 22 11


He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Oh well can't say I did not try yo point you in the right direction but obviously you are resistant to even considering anything that would help you with a better understanding of scripture.

Sad to see that in one that claims to preach the word of God.

 

[Zaatar71]

All you do is argue against scripture, when someone shows you a scripture that point blanks contradicts your beliefs, you conveniently say, oh that's not the context. You act like everyone who shows a scripture its required to give a chapter summary or something. If they do, you not going to believe it either way. If you expect me to give you a chapter and book survey every time I show you a verse, you will be waiting forever

Yes indeed. He will never come to truth as he opposes himself. It is clear that those who oppose romans 5:12-21 do not understand the actual gospel.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes indeed. He will never come to truth as he opposes himself. It is clear that those who oppose romans 5:12-21 do not understand the actual gospel.

Yes it is indeed sad that BF opposes the truth found in Rom 5:12-21.

I pointed out this error but he refuses to change his false view.

 

[Brightfame52]

Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?2However this cannot be the case for them in Rom 5:18b wherein the declaration of scripture is

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so/in this manner by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now the word Justification here is the greek word : dikaiósis and means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

It declares the acquittal of the penalty and guilt of sin, released from the deserved penalty of death, and why is this so ?

Well the verse tells us so, by or because of one act of righteousness, that one being Jesus Christ, which act of righteousness does include His One act of obedience unto death as in Vs 19; So its that One act of suretyship obedience alone, that all men, by a free gift of Gods grace, are given by imputation, Justification of life ! This is not an offer of Justification, no more than the opposite with adam was an offer of condemnation. So since we know that some men are under condemnation Jn 3:18; 1 Cor 11:32, which means they cant be part of the all men referred to in Rom 5:18b, hence limited atonement is affirmed by Rom 5:18 ! 1

 

[Brightfame52]

You are reading backwards again.

That doesnt mean anything coming from someone who rejects the Gospel

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes. You are correct. In the new earth new Jerusalem, there is no hope of anyone ever being justified out of the lake of fire.
Now is the acceptable time. Today is the day of salvation.

You sound like you in the dark

 

[Brightfame52]

Oh well can't say I did not try yo point you in the right direction but obviously you are resistant to even considering anything that would help you with a better understanding of scripture.

Sad to see that in one that claims to preach the word of God.

The unjust are Justified, the ones in Rom 5:18b are Justified as a result of Christs doing. So Christ didnt do , or die for the unjustified, pretty simple deduction