Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

[Silverhair]

Yes which was before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And once again you missed the boat BF. All you had to do was read vs 3 through vs 6 together and you would not make the silly blunder that you have.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing
[where] in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as
[what] He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
[why] that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.
Eph 1:5
[How] having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6
[For] to the praise of the glory of His grace,
by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

We are not blessed apart from Christ, but rather we are blessed “in Christ,” In other words, “every spiritual blessing” is for believing Christians, that is, those who are in Christ.

No one is in Christ before the foundation of the world BF.

 

[Ben1445]

Im sayig you reject the Gospel, and scoff it everyday and all day by calling it calvinism. The Truths of TULIP are Essential Gospel Truths, which Truths you scoff. You not alone though, you in good company

I don't reject the Gospel. The Gospel is good news! TULIP is not good news. It is not salvation freely offered to all men. The Gospel is.

 

[Ben1445]

That is what the Calvinist ,the Apostle Paul taught.

Brightflame has figured it out, all the Cals on here have figured it out as well. You seem to have missed the memo

Now you are talking through your hat. Paul preached more against identity religion than you seem to remember. I seem to remember him saying that some people were carnal because they said "I am of Paul. and I am of Apollos. and I am of Calvin."
Yes, now that I think about it, I am pretty sure that Paul said he was not a Calvinist.

 

[David Lamb]

Now you are talking through your hat. Paul preached more against identity religion than you seem to remember. I seem to remember him saying that some people were carnal because they said "I am of Paul. and I am of Apollos. and I am of Calvin."
Yes, now that I think about it, I am pretty sure that Paul said he was not a Calvinist.

I don't call myself a Calvinist. It tends to be those who do not believe in the son-called "Doctrines of Grace" who refer to those who do as "Calvinists." Speaking personally, I came to believe the Doctrines of Grace before I had even heard of John Calvin or Calvinism.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Zaatar71

. When the Spirit gives them a new heart they come to Jesus and willingly choose Him everyday.
The others remain in the realm of sin and death, never translated out.

So then they are saved b4 they come willingly to Christ and believe ? Surely a person with a new heart given by the Spirit is saved, correct ?

So its the saved, new heart person who comes to Christ willingly. A new Heart iimplies new spiritual will, affections, desires and so on, a new inner man even

 

[Brightfame52]

And once again you missed the boat BF. All you had to do was read vs 3 through vs 6 together and you would not make the silly blunder that you have.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing
[where] in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as
[what] He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
[why] that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.
Eph 1:5
[How] having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6
[For] to the praise of the glory of His grace,
by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

We are not blessed apart from Christ, but rather we are blessed “in Christ,” In other words, “every spiritual blessing” is for believing Christians, that is, those who are in Christ.

No one is in Christ before the foundation of the world BF.

They're in Christ b4 the foundation of the world, they are accepted in the beloved b4 the foundation of the world and b4 they hear and believe the Gospel Vs 6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This was b4 they are born dead in sin Eph 2

 

[Brightfame52]

I don't reject the Gospel. The Gospel is good news! TULIP is not good news. It is not salvation freely offered to all men. The Gospel is.

You do reject the Gospel, for Tulip Truths are key elements of Truth in the Gospel of Gods Grace. For instance, there is no Salvation by Grace apart from works, without being part of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

grace means God chose only a remnant for salvation and the rest He blinds them,

Grace Salvation is from that foundation, and judging from your post I read everyday, you despise Grace Salvation.

 

[Zaatar71]

@Zaatar71



So then they are saved b4 they come willingly to Christ and believe ? Surely a person with a new heart given by the Spirit is saved, correct ?

So its the saved, new heart person who comes to Christ willingly. A new Heart iimplies new spiritual will, affections, desires and so on, a new inner man even

Well ,life and saving faith happen at the same time. We both know that dead men cannot come to Jesus.
The biblical teaching of election marks out who among fallen mankind is going to be saved of a certainty.
This certainty has always been known to our omniscient God.
The fact that it is going to take place does not negate the means of grace that God has designed to employ to effect the salvation of each and every elect person.
We know that salvation of sinners is the work of God, not anything man can do.
God grants saving repentance and faith to those He came to save.
He does leave salvation unto man who is fallen and alienated from the life of God.
There is a point in time where God makes himself known to the lost sheep, giving him life and knowledge of Jesus as Lord and Saviour, by the hidden work of the Spirit, giving a new heart, and effectually drawing that lost sheep with a life giving desire to come to Jesus for rest.
It is not just one verse, or one single way, but rather many means are used.
Many do not agree , because they try and isolate one aspect or the other and proclaim one part of this salvation as if it were the whole Truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Zaatar71

Well ,life and saving faith happen at the same time.

Not Faith as a act of believing. Life always precedes activity. Take Cornelius for an example, he was surely spiritually alive b4 he heard Peter preach and believe the Gospel. He had a heart that feared God b4 he met peter, and no man by nature in the flesh fears God according to Rom 3:18

There is no fear of God before their eyes

yet Cornelius feared God Acts 10:2,4

A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway

And God even accepted his prayers which God wouldn't do for a spiritually dead God hating person

And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

He does leave salvation unto man who is fallen and alienated from the life of God.

What do you mean by this comment ?

As I read the rest of your comment, I find much I agree with

 

[Zaatar71]

@Zaatar71

What do you mean by this comment ?

As I read the rest of your comment, I find much I agree with

He does leave salvation unto man who is fallen and alienated from the life of God.

This comment was posted in error, as it was meant to be;

He does NOT leave salvation unto man who is fallen and alienated from the life of God.

Evidently I was up too early, before my brain was fully engaged and I failed to proof read my post, Lol

I would never post that man controls his salvation as scripture as you know clearly says salvation is of the Lord.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Zaatar71

He does NOT leave salvation unto man who is fallen and alienated from the life of God.

okay i understand

Evidently I was up too early, before my brain was fully engaged and I failed to proof read my post, Lol

I would never post that man controls his salvation as scripture as you know clearly says salvation is of the Lord.

Okay do you believe the elect are Justified before God on the basis of Christ finished work on their behalf, purging them from their sins, before they are regenerated and while enemies by nature ? Yes or No, and then briefly explain why

 

[Ben1445]

I don't call myself a Calvinist. It tends to be those who do not believe in the son-called "Doctrines of Grace" who refer to those who do as "Calvinists." Speaking personally, I came to believe the Doctrines of Grace before I had even heard of John Calvin or Calvinism.

The doctrines of grace are mostly the ideas put together by Calvin and a few others. It is not inaccurate to say that whether you were aware of it or not, your beliefs were influenced by Calvin (since you are claiming the “doctrines of grace”)

 

[Ben1445]

You do reject the Gospel, for Tulip Truths are key elements of Truth in the Gospel of Gods Grace. For instance, there is no Salvation by Grace apart from works, without being part of the Election of Grace Rom 11:5-7

They are not essential elements as taught by TULIP. If I were to give them different Scriptural definitions they would be. But my goal is not to reform the reformers. When you start with error and try to fix error, you always have error as your starting point.
I am not giving better definitions to Tulip. It is confusing enough with as many definitions as there are Calvinists or dog or tulip or reformed people. Possibly several sets of definitions depending on how many of those names they take.
BUT, that is an awfully confusing statement you made. It looks like you are saying that salvation is not apart from works.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

This shows what they are at present, not how they came to be there. If you have already decided that some of these words mean things that they don’t, you will always be confused.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

It is definitely by God’s grace and not by works.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

They are the election because they have it. The blind did not receive it because they reject it. God hasn’t blinded them.

grace means God chose only a remnant for salvation and the rest He blinds them,

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 2:11
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Grace Salvation is from that foundation, and judging from your post I read everyday, you despise Grace Salvation.

I have salvation that is freely offered in Christ’s atonement for any sin. I have life in His resurrection. I have salvation by God’s grace through my faith.
I am not reformed. The Gospel I believe was before reformed theology.
I reject your view of God’s grace. Show me where I believe in works salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

They're in Christ b4 the foundation of the world, they are accepted in the beloved b4 the foundation of the world and b4 they hear and believe the Gospel Vs 6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This was b4 they are born dead in sin Eph 2

Rather boastful of you and @David Lamb to think you were so special that God picked you out B4 creation.

So much for the humble calvinist myth.

Your response just shows that you really do approach the bible with a clear bias. You have denied and misused clear scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Ben1445

They are not essential elements as taught by TULIP.

They are, no way around it. Even one of the most popular baptist ministers ever preaching, admitted this:

And I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in his dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering, love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the peculiar redemption which Christ made for his elect and chosen people; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having believed. Such a gospel I abhor. The gospel of the Bible is not such a gospel as that. We preach Christ and him crucified in a different fashion, and to all gainsayers we reply, "We have not so learned Christ." (Sermon number 98 New Park Street Pulpit 1:100)

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox?s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again. ?C.H.S. (Defence of Calvinism)

Charles Spurgeon

 

[Brightfame52]

Rather boastful of you and @David Lamb to think you were so special that God picked you out B4 creation.

So much for the humble calvinist myth.

Your response just shows that you really do approach the bible with a clear bias. You have denied and misused clear scripture.

They were accepted in the beloved before they came out of their mothers womb! Eph 1:6

 

[Layman]

Rather boastful of you and @David Lamb to think you were so special that God picked you out B4 creation.

Whether you’re aware of it or not, as a syngergist you actually have a reason to be boastful because it was your own
exercise of free will that saved you.

 

[JesusFan]

Whether you’re aware of it or not, as a syngergist you actually have a reason to be boastful because it was your own
exercise of free will that saved you.

When 2 sinners who are both lost hear the good news of Jesus, one turns to Him, while the other scoffs at Him, why did the one change? If one does hold to we are assisting the Lord in saving us, must be due to that person being smarter, wiser, exercised their own faith etc

 

[Silverhair]

They were accepted in the beloved before they came out of their mothers womb! Eph 1:6

Sorry BF but you are wrong.

To be accepted in Christ means they are saved and no one is in Christ until they place their faith in Him.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


For a person that claims to preach the word of God you do not seem to understand scripture very well.

 

[Silverhair]

Whether you’re aware of it or not, as a syngergist you actually have a reason to be boastful because it was your own
exercise of free will that saved you.

That is being humble and realizing that you cannot save yourself @Layman. As we see here
Luk 18:13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'

The only ones that boast are those that think they were chosen B4 creation and that would be the calvinists.

As the bible says
Luk 1:52 "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, And has exalted those who were humble.