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What Constitutes a Bona Fide Offer?

Paleouss

Active Member
I was contemplating what would make a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?

1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered is chained in the opposing kingdom and the one who offers does nothing to remove the chains of the one offered. Is this a bona fide offer?

2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered hears nonsense like this, “keinfei$3k 3dknvv8”. Is this a bona fide offer?

3. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).

If the above points, 1 & 2, are satisfied, it seems that desiring and choosing to accept or reject is sufficient.

4. In every case, without fail, what is being offered is granted if the conditions are met.

5. In every case, without fail, the consequences of a rejection of the offer is “just”.


Peace to you brothers
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?

15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear: 1 Pe 3
 

Wesley Briggman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
(1Co 2:14 KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Paleouss

Active Member
(1Co 2:14 KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Greetings Wesley. Peace and hope to you my brother.

In response to my post with multiple points, you only gave a verse. I am left to my own flawed intellect trying to connect your wisdom you wished to give me. So a couple of questions...

a. Is the verse you gave me in reference to my point #2? Or is it more of a broad application to all the points. If you intended a more broad application, will you elaborate?

Regarding 1Cor 2:14 and its interpretation. It would seem that the key words in the verse are (a) "receiveth" and (b) "foolishness" and (c) "discerned".

Regarding the word "receiveth" (dechomai). Various translation of this word are; "accept" (ESV, NASB); "does not receive" (NKJV, RSV); "receiveth not" (KJV). (I only used the word for word translations). Further, according to Strong's G1209 the word means "receive", "take", "accept", "take up".

It seems to me that what the verse is trying to communicate is more like the English word "accept" when it is translated "receive" in the KJV. That is, the word "recieveth not" in the KJV doesn't mean "is never given in any form or amount by God". It means, "is not accepted". We must further define this "is not accepted" so that one does not confuse it with saying "does not allow God to give" for God is not thwarted if He intended to give any man any form of enlightenment. This word in the KJV, "receiveth not", means "does not conclude" or "rejects as truth".

This translation, above, of the word dechomai fits well with the next word in question, mōria -- from G3474; silliness, i.e. absurdity:—foolishness. In other words, the "natural man" "rejects" the wisdom and conclusions of Spiritual things because they "appraise" them as "foolishness". It is not like the natural man doesn't see words in the Bible when he reads it. It's not like the words of a witness to him are just incoherent sounds. He hears the words, understands them, but "accepts them not" for He "appraises" them as "foolish" talk.

The last word in question was the KJV word "discerned" (anakrinō). Here I really like the NASB95 translation of "appraise". Strong's says, G350 "examine", "judge", "ask question", "search", "discern". As can be seen, imo, what all these words have in common is the word "appraise".

So in light of what I think 1Cor 2:14 is communicating. I'm not sure where to apply the verse you gave me to the OP.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure (Prov 2)
 

Paleouss

Active Member
1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered is chained in the opposing kingdom and the one who offers does nothing to remove the chains of the one offered. Is this a bona fide offer?
Expanding upon the OP and point #1.

Within the biblical text, the Devil is associated with the consequences of sin. For he was “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44) and there is “no truth in him” for “he is a liar and the father of it” (Heb 8:44). The Devil, in his rebellion, uses the “power of death” (Heb 2:14) and sin as his weapon to keep mankind as “slaves to sin” (Rom 6:16-20). These two powers, sin and death, are called within the biblical text the “works of the devil” (1John 3:8). Further, the Devil is considered the father of all those that are a slave to sin. For “He who sins is of the devil” (v8), i.e., You are of your "father the devil” (John 8:44) and the “desires of your father you want to do” (John 8:44). So if one is a “slave to sin” (Rom 6:16-20) then one is captive under the dominion of the ruler of this age, the prince of the power of the air (Eph 2:2).

So this fallen kingdom, i.e., earth, is under the dominion of the Devil (Matt 4:8-9). All of mankind are lost (Rom 3:10-12) and in bondage within the kingdom of the Devil (2Pet 2:19).

Now...enter the conquering King and Savior, Massiach ben Joseph and Messiah ben David (the same person), with a proclamation and offer. He proclaims, "I will tear down this kingdom and put all that oppose me under my foot" (1Cor 15:24-28, Heb 2:8, 1John 3:8, Phil 2:10, 1Pet 3:22)... and then the offer, "Believe and have faith and I will make you part of my coming kingdom".

Important questions:

a. Is it a legitimate offer if those in bondage cannot hear or understand the offer?
b. Is it a legitimate offer if they can hear and understand the offer but are still under the dominion of the Devil, i.e., in chains of bondage (power over them), and cannot act on the offer?

Is it the case that in the multiple accomplishments of Christ on the cross. Particularly the Cosmic Triumph of the power of sin over mankind. That Christ obliterated, put asunder, conquered the nexus, dominion, grip, power of sin and death over mankind? Thus ushering in, or being the culmination of God's stratagem of mercy and grace in which the promise of salvation through faith is possible for all mankind (i.e., it is sufficient). This of course is not a conclusion of Universalism.

Does Christ's work on the cross conquer the 'authority' and 'power' that was a barrier to a bona fide offer to all the world? Thus making it a bona fide offer?

Keep seeking God's truth (Prov 2)
 

Wesley Briggman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).
All of mankind is under a spiritual influence.

(Rom 6:16 KJV) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Two choices. No third option, as you surmise.

God's elect will be reborn spiritually.

(1Pe 1:2 KJV) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

(Eph 2:1 KJV) And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(Eph 2:2 KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(Eph 2:3 KJV) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
(Eph 2:4 KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(Eph 2:5 KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I was contemplating what would make a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?
Where would anyone come up with the idea of "an offer" that has ever been made "to the unbelieving"?

Is there anyone you know of who is making "an offer" to the unbelieving?

1. If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom".
Who is it that says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom"


2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).
Is there a rule written down somewhere that states, "I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered"?

And what is being offered based on that "rule"?


If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom".
This idea of an offer being made somewhere, to someone is repeated here, from #1.

I need some clarification as to where that idea of "an offer" came from.


3. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).
Here, as in #2, there is an "I must be capable/able" assertion that I was wondering what the authority is for that kind of rule.

Is there anywhere, in any scenario where someone has to say,
"I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept,"
in order for it to fulfill a definition for them to have "freedom"?

If the above points, 1 & 2, are satisfied, it seems that desiring and choosing to accept or reject is sufficient.
If the above points, 1 & 2, are unable to be supported or substantiated, as being present in reality,
"it seems that desiring and choosing to accept or reject any offer ever being made is insufficient for contemplating.


4. In every case, without fail, what is being offered is granted if the conditions are met.
And nothing can be granted when nothing is offered.


5. In every case, without fail, the consequences of a rejection of the offer is “just”.
For the sake of honesty, a thing may be "just", as the consequences of being associated with that which is rationally in fact true.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
C.O.F.F.E.E.

C
HRIST
OFFERS
FORGIVENESS
FOR
EVERYONE
EVERYWHERE

Mat_11:28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
C.O.F.F.E.E.

E
VERYONE


Mat_11:28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Everyone? Not. Only to those Christ wills to reveal it to:

Matthew Chapter 11

27​

All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.

28​

Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29​

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30​

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Besides, most assuredly not 'everyone' labors and is heavy laden with their religion which is the case of those Jews that sincerely desired to please God under the Sinai covenant.
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I was contemplating what would make a bona fide offer to the unbelieving. What do you think?

1. One must not be under some other dominion, power, or influence (power and dominion).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered is chained in the opposing kingdom and the one who offers does nothing to remove the chains of the one offered. Is this a bona fide offer?

2. I must be capable at some level of understanding what I am being offered (enlightenment, illumination).

If the one that offers says, "come and be free with me in my kingdom". But the one being offered hears nonsense like this, “keinfei$3k 3dknvv8”. Is this a bona fide offer?

3. I must be able to reject what I desire to reject and accept what I desire to accept (freedom).

If the above points, 1 & 2, are satisfied, it seems that desiring and choosing to accept or reject is sufficient.

4. In every case, without fail, what is being offered is granted if the conditions are met.

5. In every case, without fail, the consequences of a rejection of the offer is “just”.


Peace to you brothers
An offer is something presented that can be accepted or rejected. Bona fide means sincere or legitimate.

A bona fide offer is a something that is legitimately presented that can be accepted or rejected.
 
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