TULIP - Which of the 5 points to subscribe to?

[Van]

I am a one point Calvinist, I voted the the "P" because I am in the once saved, always saved camp.

I am a quasi two point Arminian, in that I believe Christ died for all mankind, and I believe God elects individuals based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

And I am a different breed, in that I believe the lost are able to understand spiritual milk without first being "enabled" by some sort of restorative grace. Also, I do not believe the election of Ephesians 1:4 was individual, but believe it was corporate followed by our individual election during our lifetime based on crediting our faith as righteousness.

Finally, I believe the TULI of the TULIP can easily and obviously be shown to be false doctrines.

 

[kyredneck]

You totally minsnterpret and misrepresent. That is a dishonest way to discuss things.

That indeed is @Silverhair.

 

[Silverhair]

That indeed is @Silverhair.

KY you just do not like it when I point out the obvious errors that come from your particular religion.

 

[Silverhair]

You totally minsnterpret and misrepresent. That is a dishonest way to discuss things.

How is quoting calvinists misrepresenting what calvinists say?

 

[kyredneck]

KY you just do not like it when I point out the obvious errors that come from your particular religion.

Note all those that are in agreement that you are dishonest in your responses to others.

 

[Paleouss]

This sounds like what is called fullerism. Have you heard of that before ? Its basically a blending together of Calvinism and Arminianism, I believe its a very subtle way of believing in arminianism which is salvation by man meeting a condition, even if that condition is faith or believing, which amounts to works.

Greetings Brightfame, I hope you are doing well.

Yea, I call myself a compatiblist or just a "I don't ignore large groupings of verse for a binary view". Others might call me a fence rider. I've been called a Calvinist by Arminians and a Arminian by Calvinists.

Just going the direction the verses are sending me.

Peace to you brother

 

[Silverhair]

Note all those that are in agreement that you are dishonest in your responses to others.

Note they are those of the C/R view so I would not expect them to agree with me.

But then again many of that view do have a problem with the text of the bible also.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am a one point Calvinist, I voted the the "P" because I am in the once saved, always saved camp.

I am a quasi two point Arminian, in that I believe Christ died for all mankind, and I believe God elects individuals based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

And I am a different breed, in that I believe the lost are able to understand spiritual milk without first being "enabled" by some sort of restorative grace. Also, I do not believe the election of Ephesians 1:4 was individual, but believe it was corporate followed by our individual election during our lifetime based on crediting our faith as righteousness.

Finally, I believe the TULI of the TULIP can easily and obviously be shown to be false doctrines.

do you believe you must persevere to be saved?

 

[Brightfame52]

do you believe you must persevere to be saved?

I do because it perseverance is the fruit and evidence that Jesus saved you and is preserving you.

 

[Van]

do you believe you must persevere to be saved?

Why would you ask if I believe in the need to sustain salvation by works? Are you going to address my stated positions, of simply address other areas.

1) I said I believe Christ died as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 2 Peter 2:1. Do you agree?
2) I said I believe I believe God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith in the truth as righteousness? Do you agree?
3) I said I believe the lost can understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. Do you agree.
4) I said I believe the lost do not need to be supernaturally altered by some sort of enabling grace before they can seek God and trust in Christ. Do you agree.

We can have a fruitful discussion only if we discuss our actual beliefs, rather than innuendos.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would you ask if I believe in the need to sustain salvation by works? Are you going to address my stated positions, of simply address other areas.

I asked a simple question.

point 5 states, perseverance of the saints.

You said you agreed with it.

Do you agree that a person has to persevere to be saved?

1) I said I believe Christ died as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 2 Peter 2:1. Do you agree?
2) I said I believe I believe God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith in the truth as righteousness? Do you agree?
3) I said I believe the lost can understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. Do you agree.
4) I said I believe the lost do not need to be supernaturally altered by some sort of enabling grace before they can seek God and trust in Christ. Do you agree.

We can have a fruitful discussion only if we discuss our actual beliefs, rather than innuendos.

I just asked a question.

I used to think I was a 1 or 2 point Calvinist myself. until I looked deeper.

I do not believe we persevere, I believe God keeps us.

so I reject point 5.

I was trying to get you maybe to see this too.

In my view point 5 is just a counter to Armenian's 5th point. we must persevere.

we do not persevere. God keep us..

 

[Van]

I asked a simple question.

point 5 states, perseverance of the saints.

You said you agreed with it.

Do you agree that a person has to persevere to be saved?



I just asked a question.

I used to think I was a 1 or 2 point Calvinist myself. until I looked deeper.

I do not believe we persevere, I believe God keeps us.

so I reject point 5.

I was trying to get you maybe to see this too.

In my view point 5 is just a counter to Armenian's 5th point. we must persevere.

we do not persevere. God keep us..

I answered your question but you ignored my answer. Looks like we will not be able to discuss scripture.

Obviously I do not believe in a salvation sustained by works. But I do believe everyone saved does persevere because they are kept.

Preservation of the Saints is sound doctrine, as Christ said He will not cast out those given to Him. How does God keep them? He uses His power to protect their faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I answered your question but you ignored my answer. Looks like we will not be able to discuss scripture.

Yes, you did not answer.

by your answer you show you do not believe in point 5 of calvins theology.

and by the way, I was not talkin against you. now attacking you. I just asked you a simple question. Please calm down..

Obviously I do not believe in a salvation sustained by works. But I do believe everyone saved does persevere because they are kept.

ok scratch that. This is legalism. I did not persevere. I am kept I take no credit for saving myself or keeping myself saved. Persevering to the end is not even about eternal salvation. its remaining alive in the time of tribulation until Christ remains. it is about saving your physical life. not your eternal life

Preservation of the Saints is sound doctrine,

Um No it is not

as Christ said He will not cast out those given to Him. How does God keep them? He uses His power to protect their faith.

Yes.

Not because they persevere but because He kept them

Persevere would require we meet some standard.

you and I can not meet that standard. hence we can not persevere. no matter where we are. if we get what we deserve. we deserve hell.

that is not persevering.

 

[Marooncat79]

It all pretty much rides on depravity.

Is man sick?

Corrupt?

Or totally corrupt? In other words is the totality of man been impacted by sin?.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why would you ask if I believe in the need to sustain salvation by works? Are you going to address my stated positions, of simply address other areas.

1) I said I believe Christ died as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 2 Peter 2:1. Do you agree?
2) I said I believe I believe God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith in the truth as righteousness? Do you agree?
3) I said I believe the lost can understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. Do you agree.
4) I said I believe the lost do not need to be supernaturally altered by some sort of enabling grace before they can seek God and trust in Christ. Do you agree.

We can have a fruitful discussion only if we discuss our actual beliefs, rather than innuendos.

Those Christ died for as an ransom, that saved them. Isa 35:10

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

 

[Van]

Yes, you did not answer.

by your answer you show you do not believe in point 5 of calvins theology.

and by the way, I was not talkin against you. now attacking you. I just asked you a simple question. Please calm down..


ok scratch that. This is legalism. I did not persevere. I am kept I take no credit for saving myself or keeping myself saved. Persevering to the end is not even about eternal salvation. its remaining alive in the time of tribulation until Christ remains. it is about saving your physical life. not your eternal life

Um No it is not

Yes.

Not because they persevere but because He kept them

Persevere would require we meet some standard.

you and I can not meet that standard. hence we can not persevere. no matter where we are. if we get what we deserve. we deserve hell.

that is not persevering.

Goodbye Sir,

 

[Van]

Those Christ died for as an ransom, that saved them. Isa 35:10

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

More nonsense, more reading into scripture what ever the false doctrine requires. Everyone saved was ransomed. What you deny is everyone not saved was also ransomed, 2 Peter 2:1.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Goodbye Sir,

Lol

Whatever

I guess we are not aloud to question people. But that’s oj

 

[Brightfame52]

More nonsense, more reading into scripture what ever the false doctrine requires. Everyone saved was ransomed. What you deny is everyone not saved was also ransomed, 2 Peter 2:1.

Oh no, the ransomed of the Lord are saved. 2 Pet 2:1 says nothing different Isa 35 10

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Return means conversion

 

[Van]

Endless change of subject posts, addressing my supposed bad behavior rather then the topic. Every saved person was ransomed. That is not the issue.
2 Peter 2:1 says someone bought by the Lord was heading for destruction. This is what is being denied.