Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I thought the same
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Calvinism Made Me Doubt My Salvation
- Thread starter Regulus
- Start date
What does his situation have to do with Calvinism at all? He has said he is having an amicable divorce. What is that based on? He introduced this on this thread. I have never heard of anyone who is going through such a trial, and then blame a theological teaching as part of the reason for their personal difficulty. What if a person said, The premillennial Dispensational ideas are causing my spouse to want to leave me, because we cannot agree on the timing of the rapture. I asked John Hagee for advice and he told me to seek help at my local church, would that be valid? Would the teaching on endtimes be related at all.
I did not.
I gave a wholehearted profession of faith. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to be sinlessly perfect. It’s comments like this that really give Calvinists a bad name.
I’m not part of a local church right now because I got burnt out on organized religion. I have been listening to their podcast and livestreams and thought that they genuinely cared about the brethren, but apparently I was wrong.
K. I get that you're questioning @Regulus's sincerity, that he may be a 'stealth Calvinist-slayer' out to smear the theology. Time will tell. Too early for me to form an opinion.
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The "P" stands for "Preservation of the Saints" and says those saved are kept saved and no one can lose their salvation. I believe this doctrine, as stated, is correct and valid doctrine.
I say Preservation and this poster says Persevere. Needless effort to create an issue.
See post 15 in this thread.
Calvinism false claims that lost people (natural unregenerate people) cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God, but that reads into 1 Corinthians 2:14 more than what it says. The things could mean all the things, or could mean some of the things. In order to determine which view is correct, we need to look at the context. In 1 Corinthians 3:1 Paul says he must speak to immature Christians, in the same way he speaks to natural unregenerate "men of flesh." Will Wesley tell us why Paul uses spiritual milk to address natural people, if they cannot understand spiritual milk? No, of course not, because Calvinism has no answer. Their1 Corinthians 2:14 doctrine is unbiblical and unstudied.
I could plow through the rest but it would be a waste and a diversion from the thread topic, because no Calvinist ever responds with an actual discussion of the verse in question. Rather we get a subject change or an absurdity.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I just made a statement. Based on what I have heard calvinists say in the past.
I have also seen it written as perseverance of the saints.
in fact. before you make silly accusations. You should probably check yourself
A quick google of perseverANCE of the aints showed this and much more
from Got Question...
Perseverance of the Saints - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Perseverance of the saints is the name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the eternal security of the believer. It answers the question, “Once a person is saved, can he lose his salvation?” Perseverance of the saints is the P in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism. Because the term “perseverance of the saints” can cause people to have the wrong idea about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “preservation of the saints,” “eternal security,” or “held by God.” Each of these terms reveals some aspect of what the Bible teaches about the security of the believer. However, like any biblical doctrine, what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately it summarizes what the Bible teaches about that subject. No matter which name you use to refer to this important doctrine, a thorough study of the Bible will reveal that, when it is properly understood, it is an accurate description of what the Bible teaches.
From John Piper on calvinism
Perseverance of the Saints
perseverance of the saints
Session 8
TULIP
- Message by
John Piper
- Topic: Calvinism
from another reformed pastor
reformed theology
April 22, 2017
Theology\Reformed Theology\Perseverance of the Saints
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Perseverance of the Saints
R.C. SproulI do not just make stuff up
I’m not here to smear anybody’s theology. I’m simply saying that there are some Calvinists out there that like to act like Pharisees and they don’t actually practice what they preach. It’s not a good look.
Agree. Totally.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Alot of people do this no matter what "ism" they follow
Zactly. Pharisaical attitudes can be found in any theology or denomination.
Yes Kyredneck, You are correct in your assessment here. I do question this thread as if it is sincere or not.
The Poster says he is undergoing a difficult time in life, soon to be divorced, which is both sad and difficult to work through for sure. A few of the men have offered him help in this regard. My radar went up when I read the title of this thread;
Calvinism Made Me Doubt My Salvation??? I saw that this was the posters #3 post.
I do not see any connection to this theological position, in reference to this thread. As a new member, going through such a trial, I find it hard to believe that this is what is first, and foremost in mind. he mentions two podcasts that he reached out too, They said he should seek local pastoral counsel. He then spoke in a way to disparage these unnamed men as if somehow he knows that they are uncaring? Then he says that he is now, not in any church?? Do you think if you are facing a severe trial, that you should absent yourself from a local fellowship, rather than have brothers prayer for a possible reconciliation of the marriage? So yes, I am suspect of this thread. He says he did not break the marriage covenant, ok, so why is the wife, seeking a divorce? Was she not a professed Christian? We do not know. He did not say if they spoke to his local pastor.Now, we do not have to know such details, but he is the one who mentioned it here. Of course, then we saw the accusation of that Calvinists,
are arrogant, and rude, to which some resident non cals jumped right on ,lol. I have my doubts,lol
Yes of course you did not make up the Perseverance of the Saints view held by many Calvinist. I was unset because you did not address my view presented in my post. Many posters misrepresent the biblical views I present, so I reacted harshly because you seemed to be doing the same thing.I just made a statement. Based on what I have heard calvinists say in the past.
I have also seen it written as perseverance of the saints.
in fact. before you make silly accusations. You should probably check yourself
A quick google of perseverANCE of the aints showed this and much more
from Got Question...
Perseverance of the Saints - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Perseverance of the saints is the name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the eternal security of the believer. It answers the question, “Once a person is saved, can he lose his salvation?” Perseverance of the saints is the P in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism. Because the term “perseverance of the saints” can cause people to have the wrong idea about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “preservation of the saints,” “eternal security,” or “held by God.” Each of these terms reveals some aspect of what the Bible teaches about the security of the believer. However, like any biblical doctrine, what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately it summarizes what the Bible teaches about that subject. No matter which name you use to refer to this important doctrine, a thorough study of the Bible will reveal that, when it is properly understood, it is an accurate description of what the Bible teaches.
From John Piper on calvinism
Perseverance of the Saints
perseverance of the saints
Session 8
TULIP
- Message by
John Piper
- Topic: Calvinism
from another reformed pastor
reformed theology
April 22, 2017
Theology\Reformed Theology\Perseverance of the Saints
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Perseverance of the Saints
I do not just make stuff up
Here it is again, for the third time:
The "P" stands for "Preservation of the Saints" and says those saved are kept saved and no one can lose their salvation. I believe this doctrine, as stated, is correct and valid doctrine.
[/INDENT]
Do you see Preservation and those saved are KEPT, AND NO 0NE CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION. This is the biblical doctrine.
Yes, but it tends to be more prominent among those who call themselves Calvinists.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually I did address it. I prety much agreed with it all.. I just see "perseverance of the saints" differently than you do.
You should not assume things.. It was nothing against you at all. I made a general statement
And I disagree in part because the term "perseverance of the saints" As generally used. insinuates some how that the person must "persevere to the end"
I did not even see you used the word preservation, and to be honest. I am not sure that is a word I have seen used before..
Please go back and look at my last post.
PEREVERANCE of the saints " a more common term" seems to insinuate something else. and seems to be an argument against the Apposing argument we must persevere till the end.
As you wrote it. i could agree.. But again. Even major reformed pastors as I have shown, use the word persevere not preserve two completely different terms.
I believe in eternal security. I do not need a name or 5 point doctrine to tell me it is true.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I see it far more in catholic chats.. But yes, as someone said earlier .. Some reformed people can be quite pharisaic in their attitude
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
its been asked a couple times now. Maybe you can help us. Is this a general concern thread or an anti calvin thread?
Well Sir, we can agree, we do not need the "P" of the TULIP to tell us "Once Saved, Always Saved."
Whichever you would like it to be, sir.
One last post on the "P" of the TULIP.
The Saints perseverance is because of God's preservation. So as we examine our lives, to see if we are "of the faith" we will find our efforts to follow Christ on His paths of righteousness. But what if we do not? Then we should question our salvation, because as a person whose faith is protected by the power of God, our commitment to Christ as our Lord should be manifested as a core attribute.
The Saints perseverance is because of God's preservation. So as we examine our lives, to see if we are "of the faith" we will find our efforts to follow Christ on His paths of righteousness. But what if we do not? Then we should question our salvation, because as a person whose faith is protected by the power of God, our commitment to Christ as our Lord should be manifested as a core attribute.