Calvinism Made Me Doubt My Salvation

[Dave G]

I recently attempted to reach out to two well-known Calvinist theologians for spiritual advice, and it seems that they wanted to dismiss my cries for help and have my local church deal with it. That hurt me. I felt the need to reexamine why I'm experiencing such hopelessness.

I'm not sure I understand the situation.
In my place, the first thing I would have done is to seek the Lord for answers, and then talk to someone that I knew personally and for a long time...
A friend and a brother in Christ, especially one who knows the Scriptures very well.
But there have been times that I felt the need to talk to someone that everyone else viewed and treated as a pastor, as well.

Regardless of whether or not they are "well-known", I suspect they felt that someone who is a bit closer to you, locally, would have been better for you to talk to rather than them reaching out over whatever distance separates you from them.

 

[Dave G]

Could it be that God really is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance?

Could it be that whoever taught you 2 Peter 3:9, did so not realizing the context...
That He is not willing that any of His beloved perish, but that they all come to repentance?

Knowing that would be a great comfort to me as a believer.

Could it be that God wants all people to be saved and come to know the truth?

It could be, but it isn't.
If He wanted that to happen, then it would come to pass because the Bible tells us that He is in control, and nothing that is His will does not come to pass....
Regardless of what appears to contradict that.

Even Adam's fall was foreseen by Him, and His plan to send His Son to give Himself a ransom for us was in place at that time.

Still, all those who have truly believed on Christ can take great comfort in knowing that He made them part of the "all" in 2 Timothy 2, and we know who the all are by the context given to us in other places:
The saved out of every tongue, tribe and nation, His elect both Jew and Gentile.

 

[Dave G]

If He does, then I have comfort knowing that forgiveness is available for me. If not, then I have no reason to believe that I'm one of the elect and might as well give up my faith entirely.

Forgiveness has always been available for those who have heard and believed His words, who have trusted in Him for salvation and who truly want to repent of their sins.
A person's being one of His elect is not dependent upon their lack of knowledge or misunderstanding of His word at a given time, as He promises that all those who have truly believed on His Son will be led into all truth.

I accepted Christ as my savior as a young child and have believed it with all my heart ever since then.

Just going by the statement and not knowing anything else about you, it looks to me as if you are one of His elect, as every one of us starts out very much the same as what you have just expressed in the above.

As I see it, any misunderstanding about who the elect are and what their characteristics are, can be cleared up by studying God's word over time, and letting the Scriptures alone have their say in all matters.

It was those 2 Calvinists that convinced me to become a Calvinist in the first place

The truth of God's word is what should convince anyone of anything;
I encourage you to study it, my friend, and forget what anyone ever tried to teach you about how and why any of us are saved in the first place.

God is your Teacher, not men ( John 6:45, 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, Hebrews 8:10-13, 1 John 2:20-27 ).
Going to men and their institutions for your understanding of it should be the last thing that anyone who has trusted in Him, should ever do.

We should go to Him in faith, knowing that He will reveal all things to us in time and through the Holy Spirit that dwells within each and every one of us who believes.

 

[Dave G]

@Regulus

I sympathize with you and your situation, because I've been in similar situations...
Though not a divorce, it was other things that I have done and been involved in.

I will pray that the Lord help you and show you His love.

With all the above in mind, please know that God promises that all things will work together for good for them that love God, for them who are the called according to His purpose.
It was them that He foreknew, predestined, called to a relationship with Him, justified and glorified ( Romans 8:28-30 ), and it is them, "the whosoever believeth", from the heart, that He has promised that nothing...not divorce, not their sins, not other people, nothing...

Shall separate them from the love of God:

" What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." ( Romans 8:31-30 )

May He bless you in many ways.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Dave G

Forgiveness has always been available for those who have heard and believed His words, who have trusted in Him for salvation and who truly want to repent of their sins.
A person's being one of His elect is not dependent upon their lack of knowledge or misunderstanding of His word at a given time, as He promises that all those who have truly believed on His Son will be led into all truth.

Hi what do you mean by "forgiveness has been available" ?

 

[Dave G]

Hi what do you mean by "forgiveness has been available" ?

Jesus Christ took care of the sins of God's elect on the cross, not when they believed.
Since all of them were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ), then nothing stands in the way or has stood in the way.

In other words, without them ever having to ask forgiveness, it's been there for them...
Courtesy of His Son:

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." ( Colossians 2:13-14 ). <---- See when it happened? Being dead in their trespasses and sins...before they were born again, called, etc.

Forgiveness of sins for His elect existed even while they were dead in their sins.
They were "quickened together with Christ", satisfaction towards God the Father was accomplished and their forgiveness is in the past tense.
In the above, we see that everything that stood against them was taken out of the way and nailed to His cross...

Past tense statement of fact, not present tense "statement of possibility".


That's what grace is, BF...having everything accomplished by the Lord for one of His people, even when they were completely unaware of it.
Salvation is a passive event wrought by God on the part of His elect, or it would not be of grace ( Romans 11:5-6 ).

 

[Brightfame52]

@Dave G

Jesus Christ took care of the sins of God's elect on the cross, not when they believed.
Since all of them were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:10 ), then nothing stands in the way or has stood in the way.

In other words, without them ever having to ask forgiveness, it's been there for them...
Courtesy of His Son:

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 [and] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." ( Colossians 2:13-14 ). <---- See when it happened? Being dead in their trespasses and sins...before they were born again, called, etc.

Forgiveness of sins for His elect existed even while they were dead in their sins.

Okay this sounds accurate to me, so would you say the elect were Justified before Gods law and Justice as well b4 they believed and dead in sins ?

They were "quickened together with Christ", satisfaction towards God the Father was accomplished and their forgiveness is in the past tense.
In the above, we see that everything that stood against them was taken out of the way and nailed to His cross...

Past tense statement of fact, not present tense "statement of possibility".

okay

That's what grace is, BF...having everything accomplished by the Lord for one of His people, even when they were completely unaware of it.
Salvation is a passive event wrought by God on the part of His elect, or it would not be of grace ( Romans 11:5-6 ).

okay I agree

So I guess this is why you used the word available earlier ?

 

[Dave G]

Okay this sounds accurate to me, so would you say the elect were Justified before Gods law and Justice as well b4 they believed and dead in sins ?

Justified before, after, and apart from God's law, yes...as well as before they believed and while they were dead in sins.

To the believer, God's law serves as a constant reminder that we are unable to obey Him perfectly, in and of ourselves ( Romans 7, Galatians 5 ).
It drives us to Christ for both salvation from, and forgiveness for, those sins that we have committed.

So I guess this is why you used the word available earlier ?

Yes.

Again,
The reason I said that, is because I see the Scriptures telling each and every one of God's elect that His forgiveness for their sins was taken care of before they were ever born.
Everything that was against them was nailed to His cross and was dealt with there...
Not when they believed on His Son.

"Available":
Not "ready to be tapped into, with God waiting for us to believe or repent and then, because someone believes or repents, the Lord choosing to both forgive us and to impute Christ's righteousness to us at that point"...

But a sure, settled and very real thing that they can always have confidence in;
Knowing that everything that they needed to be right with God, was accomplished for them without them ever having to worry about it.

" Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. " ( Galatians 5:1 ).

 

[MrW]

Recently, I made a post detailing some of the struggles I have been going through recently. As some of you know, I am going through an amicable divorce that was requested by my wife. I felt lost and did not know how I could ever feel right with God knowing that I broke my vows and knowing that I am causing her to commit adultery if she ever remarries. Sins that are so egregious that, even though I profess Christ as my savior, I cannot possibly have ever been regenerated by God and predestined to salvation.

I recently attempted to reach out to two well-known Calvinist theologians for spiritual advice, and it seems that they wanted to dismiss my cries for help and have my local church deal with it. That hurt me. I felt the need to reexamine why I'm experiencing such hopelessness.

Could it be that God really is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance? Could it be that God wants all people to be saved and come to know the truth? If He does, then I have comfort knowing that forgiveness is available for me. If not, then I have no reason to believe that I'm one of the elect and might as well give up my faith entirely.

You are not causing her to do anything. Whatever she does is her choice, not yours.

If you are a Christian, you are to confess your sins to God and He is faithful and just to cleanse you of all unrighteousness.

You confess to God. God does the cleansing, not you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

@Regulus,
I think that your two Calvinist friends and @Zaatar71 are right in suggesting that you speak to your church leaders. None of us here know you, so any advice we give is quite likely to be incorrect. If you don't feel able to speak to your leaders, maybe you are in the wrong church.
The only other thing I want to say is that divorce is not the unforgiveable sin. Read 1 John 1:9. I see no limitation in that verse

 

[Reynolds]

Recently, I made a post detailing some of the struggles I have been going through recently. As some of you know, I am going through an amicable divorce that was requested by my wife. I felt lost and did not know how I could ever feel right with God knowing that I broke my vows and knowing that I am causing her to commit adultery if she ever remarries. Sins that are so egregious that, even though I profess Christ as my savior, I cannot possibly have ever been regenerated by God and predestined to salvation.

I recently attempted to reach out to two well-known Calvinist theologians for spiritual advice, and it seems that they wanted to dismiss my cries for help and have my local church deal with it. That hurt me. I felt the need to reexamine why I'm experiencing such hopelessness.

Could it be that God really is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance? Could it be that God wants all people to be saved and come to know the truth? If He does, then I have comfort knowing that forgiveness is available for me. If not, then I have no reason to believe that I'm one of the elect and might as well give up my faith entirely.

Calvinism made me extremely confident in my salvation.

 

[Charlie24]

Calvinism made me extremely confident in my salvation.

Calvinism taught me above all things to keep my faith in the purpose of His death, burial and resurrection, seeing there is no such thing as irresistible grace.

Col. 1:20-23

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

 

[Charlie24]

Calvinism taught me above all things to keep my faith in the purpose of His death, burial and resurrection, seeing there is no such thing as irresistible grace.

Col. 1:20-23

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

The Calvinists can believe Paul taught the doctrines of grace if that's what makes them feel secure.

But the great apostle never taught these lies, they were created by man.

 

[Charlie24]

The Calvinists can believe Paul taught the doctrines of grace if that's what makes them feel secure.

But the great apostle never taught these lies, they were created by man.

I hope and pray to the Lord God the faith of the Calvinist is in the purpose of His death, burial and resurrection, and not in the irresistible grace of Calvinism.

 

[Brightfame52]

Calvinism taught me above all things to keep my faith in the purpose of His death, burial and resurrection, seeing there is no such thing as irresistible grace.

Isnt your faith in those matters, Christ death, burial, resurrection merely made your salvation possible ?

 

[Charlie24]

Isnt your faith in those matters, Christ death, burial, resurrection merely made your salvation possible ?

"By Grace through faith you are saved..."

Faith in what?

Rom. 16:25-26

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

The obedience of faith in Paul's Gospel, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

That faith is my salvation promised by God.

 

[DaveXR650]

I hope and pray to the Lord God the faith of the Calvinist is in the purpose of His death, burial and resurrection, and not in the irresistible grace of Calvinism.

This is an old thread and if it has been discussed I apologize, but honestly, my first exposure to Calvinist teaching was exactly to cause me to doubt my salvation. I picked up a copy of Bridges "Pursuit of Holiness" at a YMCA bookrack not realizing that it was largely a modern paraphrase of Owen's "On the Mortification of Sin". Later, we started reading Edwards "Holy Affections" and someone warned us that if you still think you are saved after reading that then you probably are. Think back, and look at Paul Washer's "Shocking Youth Message" which I think is still on Youtube or look at John MacArthur's Lordship salvation books of which there were several, and you see what I mean.

All those are "Calvinist" although as in everything nowadays, "Calvinist" is a broad category. There is a wing of Calvinists who don't like MacArthur, or Washer, or the Puritan writings for that matter, but there are enough that do so what I am saying is true at least in part.

 

[Charlie24]

This is an old thread and if it has been discussed I apologize, but honestly, my first exposure to Calvinist teaching was exactly to cause me to doubt my salvation. I picked up a copy of Bridges "Pursuit of Holiness" at a YMCA bookrack not realizing that it was largely a modern paraphrase of Owen's "On the Mortification of Sin". Later, we started reading Edwards "Holy Affections" and someone warned us that if you still think you are saved after reading that then you probably are. Think back, and look at Paul Washer's "Shocking Youth Message" which I think is still on Youtube or look at John MacArthur's Lordship salvation books of which there were several, and you see what I mean.

All those are "Calvinist" although as in everything nowadays, "Calvinist" is a broad category. There is a wing of Calvinists who don't like MacArthur, or Washer, or the Puritan writings for that matter, but there are enough that do so what I am saying is true at least in part.

I can't comment on those things, I don't read any books on Calvinism or anything else for that matter.

I read only the Scripture and pray for knowledge in the way that He wants me to go.

I believe the steps of a righteous man are ordered by the Lord.

 

[DaveXR650]

I believe the steps of a righteous man are ordered by the Lord.

Agreed. I was just saying that as we go along the path of our own journey through life we encounter things that confuse and oppose us. For me, as I was exposed to some "easy believism" or antinomianism as a young Christian, yet never had peace with that or felt right about it, finding that book on the YMCA bookshelf was indeed what I needed at that time. And it was what you would call "Calvinist".

Have you read "Pilgrim's Progress"? There is a Calvinist (John Bunyan's) view of a man being led on the path of his Christian walk. His steps were indeed ordered by the Lord but they were also his steps, accompanied by many dangers, near disasters and failures, as well as victories. And I was told by a fundamentalist evangelist that Pilgrim's Progress was mandatory reading for a Christian.

Be careful on these websites. Calvinism is not poison or heresy. Yet, Calvinists can mess things up as well as anyone. That is why guys like Martyn Lloyd-Jones said Calvinism needs a little influence of Methodism or it becomes lifeless.

 

[Charlie24]

Agreed. I was just saying that as we go along the path of our own journey through life we encounter things that confuse and oppose us. For me, as I was exposed to some "easy believism" or antinomianism as a young Christian, yet never had peace with that or felt right about it, finding that book on the YMCA bookshelf was indeed what I needed at that time. And it was what you would call "Calvinist".

Have you read "Pilgrim's Progress"? There is a Calvinist (John Bunyan's) view of a man being led on the path of his Christian walk. His steps were indeed ordered by the Lord but they were also his steps, accompanied by many dangers, near disasters and failures, as well as victories. And I was told by a fundamentalist evangelist that Pilgrim's Progress was mandatory reading for a Christian.

Be careful on these websites. Calvinism is not poison or heresy. Yet, Calvinists can mess things up as well as anyone. That is why guys like Martyn Lloyd-Jones said Calvinism needs a little influence of Methodism or it becomes lifeless.

Yes, I remember as a kid in my IFB Church Pilgrim's Progress along with many other books were on the table in lobby for all to take.

We may disagree on what Calvinism actually is, but that's ok, we are trusting in the finished work of Christ alone for ours salvation.