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That He May Be Glorified

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Anyone who is saved has Christ's perfect righteousness imputed to them, regardless of age.

Only those that freely trust in Him will be saved Ken. How can babies do that?

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
By your logic Ken since we were all ungodly sinners prior to our trusting in Christ Jesus then all would be saved

Only God's elect among ungodly sinners are regenerated by the Holy Spirit and granted the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ and the gift of repentance of the dead works on which they had been relying.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
No. Mary was not sinless, she was of the seed of Adam. All mankind sinned in Adam, the man, not Eve, the woman.

Still wrong Ken. The bible does not say all men sinned in Adam. That is just you reading something into the text that is not there. We all physically die because Adam sinned.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

So are you saying that Eve did not sin?
 

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We aren’t robots.
Believe is what the believers are instructed to do. Believe in Jesus Christ and cease from their own works. Enter into His rest. (It was not referring to a day of the week as some think)
If belief is ceasing from my own work, belief is not ability.
Since you have free will- Stop sinning
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Only God's elect among ungodly sinners are regenerated by the Holy Spirit and granted the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ and the gift of repentance of the dead works on which they had been relying.

That is just your calvinism speaking Ken. What you have just posted is not biblical, as you have put the cart before the horse so to speak.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Since you have free will- Stop sinning

Free will does not mean you can stop sinning as we see even with Paul Rom 7:18-20. Free will means we have the ability to choose.

But look at the other side, if we have no free will then all the sins that we commit must have been determined for us to commit so by your comment @Marooncat79 you have made God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Since you have free will- Stop sinning
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

All of us. Jesus freed us from sin. Stop serving sin.

Romans 6:12-17
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Absolutely!
Stop sinning! You have a free will. Exercise it. Stop serving sin.

To the unsaved, in Christ we have freedom from sin. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
So are you saying that Eve did not sin?

No. I am not saying that Eve did not sin.

Adam was the federal head of all he represented. Thus, a hypothetical baby born this year, 2025, who grows to be an adult and never, ever sins(which is impossible, but this is only hypothetical) would eventually die because of Adam's sin.

And Christ is the federal head of all He represented - those whom God chose before the world began and gave to Him to be their Surety.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is does. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
It says sin entered the world by Adam. It says death passed to all men because we all have sinned. It does not say all sin in Adam. It says all are dead in Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But none of this is really relevant to life. We have all sinned. We are all dead.
Does anyone disagree with that?
Jesus answered for the death that came on all men.
In my opinion, we should be talking about our sin, not original sin, and original death instead of our death.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Are you a universalist Ken?

No, not based on what I have understanding of at the moment. Deciding who is saved or not saved is way, way, way, way, way... above my paygrade(so to speak), so if God has ordained that everybody will be saved, then I would rejoice in that.

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
It says death passed to all men because we all have sinned.

Death is the result of being guilty of sin; babies die who have not sinned personally; therefore, they must have had Adam's sin imputed to them.

Now, all of the sins of God's elect, regardless of age and regardless of whether it is their personal sin or the sin of Adam imputed(charged, credited) to them, were imputed to Christ and He paid their total sin debt and His perfect righteousness has been imputed to them.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
No. I am not saying that Eve did not sin.

Adam was the federal head of all he represented. Thus, a hypothetical baby born this year, 2025, who grows to be an adult and never, ever sins(which is impossible, but this is only hypothetical) would eventually die because of Adam's sin.

And Christ is the federal head of all He represented - those whom God chose before the world began and gave to Him to be their Surety.

Those that choose to sin just as Adam chose to sin are then sinners, we are not sinners because Adam sinned. Just as we are not saved just because Christ covered our sins at the cross, we have to freely trust in Him to be saved.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is does. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

That is you reading into the text something that is not there. Adam brought sin and death into the world. And if you would actually believe what God said in Gen 3:17-19 then you would see that it is death that was passed ion not sin. We are judged for our own sins.

You still want babies that die condemned to hell by the twisted logic you hold to.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
No, not based on what I have understanding of at the moment. Deciding who is saved or not saved is way, way, way, way, way... above my paygrade(so to speak), so if God has ordained that everybody will be saved, then I would rejoice in that.

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children.

Yes the secret things belong to God but the means of salvation is not a secret is it Ken.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

God has shown us the way of salvation and all we have to do is:

Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
You still want babies that die condemned to hell by the twisted logic you hold to.

I don't think you ever answered my question to you about your statement in your post #41 above, "Only those that freely trust in Him will be saved Ken. How can babies do that?"

I asked in my post #43 above: "Only those that freely trust in Him will be saved Ken. How can babies do that?"
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Yes the secret things belong to God but the means of salvation is not a secret is it Ken.

No, it's not a secret. Salvation is 100% the work of God, and 0% the work of man. Christ fulfilled all of the conditions for those God chose before the world began and gave to Him to be their Surety, whose sin debt Christ paid.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Mar 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

And those who are regenerated(born again, born from above) by the Holy Spirit are granted the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ on their behalf and the gift of repentance of the dead works that they formerly depended on.

Those who will repent and believe the gospel are those whom God gave Christ before the world began to be their Surety.
 

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Free will does not mean you can stop sinning as we see even with Paul Rom 7:18-20. Free will means we have the ability to choose.

But look at the other side, if we have no free will then all the sins that we commit must have been determined for us to commit so by your comment @Marooncat79 you have made God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world.
No. The Bible bears it out
 
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