That He May Be Glorified

[Marooncat79]

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

All of us. Jesus freed us from sin. Stop serving sin.

Romans 6:12-17
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Absolutely!
Stop sinning! You have a free will. Exercise it. Stop serving sin.

To the unsaved, in Christ we have freedom from sin. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.Q

We’ve you truly stop sinning let us know

 

[Silverhair]

No. The Bible bears it out

Bears out what? That man has a free will then you are right.

If you say man has no free will then you are just supporting a calvinst view that has no support in scripture.

But as I said your deterministic view then makes God responsible for all the sin and evil we see in the world.

And since we know He is not then logically that means your view is wrong.

 

[Silverhair]

We’ve you truly stop sinning let us know

Problem is that you do not even know what free will means.

You just follow the party line.

 

[Ben1445]

We’ve you truly stop sinning let us know

When you have truly decided not to serve sin let me know.
I’m not preaching sinless perfection.
But we are not told to stop sinning if we are not able to stop.
It sounds like a great argument to say “you can’t do it,” but that doesn’t remove the fact that Christians are told to stop sinning.

 

[David Lamb]

Except that I believe that God loved the world means that and Calvinism believes God loves only some of what God did not divide.
God would have all men to be saved and Calvinism divides out what God did not. Instead they say some all men. You don’t believe it because you don’t want to believe it. It is easier to believe God said exactly what He meant than to insert an interpretation of an all inclusive word and phrase to justify a belief that is held.
Calvinism fits the Bible to its own purposes. It doesn’t allow the Bible to shape truth.

I would say that the verse doesn't just say, "God loved the world," but:

““For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:16 NKJV)

The word "so" means "thus". So this verse is telling us how God loved the world. How was that? "That whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” So that is no "all men," for by no means all people believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is whatScripture says; I am not twisting it to "fit Calvinism's purposes."

 

[David Lamb]

You do realize that a corpse cannot sin either. Why calvinists run to such illogical points in the attempt to support their view is rather odd.

Well, Ephesians 2 does say that the Ephesian Christians, before their conversion, had indeed been "dead in trespasses and sins." Obviously they had not been physically dead. They had been dead towards God. But that doesn't mean they were unable to sin. In verse 3, Paul writes:

3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

 

[Ben1445]

I would say that the verse doesn't just say, "God loved the world," but:

““For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (Joh 3:16 NKJV)

The word "so" means "thus". So this verse is telling us how God loved the world. How was that? "That whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” So that is no "all men," for by no means all people believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is whatScripture says; I am not twisting it to "fit Calvinism's purposes."

But the word whoever leaves the door wide open.

 

[David Lamb]

But the word whoever leaves the door wide open.

Yes to all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not everybody without exception.

 

[Silverhair]

Well, Ephesians 2 does say that the Ephesian Christians, before their conversion, had indeed been "dead in trespasses and sins." Obviously they had not been physically dead. They had been dead towards God. But that doesn't mean they were unable to sin. In verse 3, Paul writes:

3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Then why do calvinists keep saying that man cannot trust in Christ because they are dead like a corpse?

 

[Ben1445]

Yes to all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not everybody without exception.

Who can believe?

 

[Ben1445]

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

[David Lamb]

Then why do calvinists keep saying that man cannot trust in Christ because they are dead like a corpse?

Because, as Ephesians 2 makes clear, God makes them alive, raises them up. The reason Calvinists say such things is because they find them in the Scriptures. They didn't suddenly think to themselves, "Let's create a new doctrine, and say that God must grant sinners new life." Jesus said we must be born again. We couldn't give birth to ourselves, just as we couldn't give ourselves physical birth.

 

[Ben1445]

Because, as Ephesians 2 makes clear, God makes them alive, raises them up. The reason Calvinists say such things is because they find them in the Scriptures. They didn't suddenly think to themselves, "Let's create a new doctrine, and say that God must grant sinners new life." Jesus said we must be born again. We couldn't give birth to ourselves, just as we couldn't give ourselves physical birth.

We aren’t working our way to heaven!
We aren’t thinking our way to heaven!
Acts 17:24-31
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

But there is no need for the non elect to worry. When the Bible says world, it doesn’t mean everyone. It means just the elect. So God will only judge the elect.
But that isn’t what it means and you know it. You must apply an unjust standard to the words of Scripture to fit your doctrine. You interpret by an unequal measure because of your beliefs.

 

[Silverhair]

Because, as Ephesians 2 makes clear, God makes them alive, raises them up. The reason Calvinists say such things is because they find them in the Scriptures. They didn't suddenly think to themselves, "Let's create a new doctrine, and say that God must grant sinners new life." Jesus said we must be born again. We couldn't give birth to ourselves, just as we couldn't give ourselves physical birth.

We are raised up with Christ after we have believed in Him not before. So if we are dead like a corpse, as calvinists claim, then we could not sin or trust in Christ. So calvinists did create a new doctrine. You must be saved before you can believe.

Calvinists have it backwards.

As we see in Eoh 1:13, which comes before Eph 2, that the dead in sin can hear the gospel message and believe the message and then God saves them. We see this again later in Eph 2:8-9. We are told we are saved by the grace of God through faith not by works we might do. And this salvation is a gift from God for those that do believe.

 

[percho]

But merely knowing good and evil (even if we assume that we inherited whatever benefits Adam gained by eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) doesn't mean sinners have the innate ability to repent and believe.

Did God want Adam to know good and evil?

 

[Silverhair]

But merely knowing good and evil (even if we assume that we inherited whatever benefits Adam gained by eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) doesn't mean sinners have the innate ability to repent and believe.

If man does not have the ability to repent and believe then why are they judged for not repenting and believing?

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[KenH]

Did God want Adam to know good and evil?

Since God is totally absolutely sovereign, the answer is yes.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

"They are seriously spoken, since this was after man was brought to a sense of the evil he committed, and to repentance for it, and had had the promised seed revealed to him as a Saviour, and, as an emblem of justification and salvation by him, was clothed with garments provided by God himself: wherefore the words are to be considered either as a declaration of his present state and condition, in and by Christ, by whose righteousness he was made righteous, even as he is righteous, though he had lost his own; to whose image he was conformed, now bearing the image of the heavenly One, though he was deprived of that in which he was created, having sinned, and come short of the glory of God; and was now restored to friendship and amity with God, favoured with his gracious presence, and having faith and hope of being with him for evermore; the eyes of his understanding were enlightened by the Spirit and grace of God, to know the good things which God had provided for him in Christ, and in the covenant of grace, a better covenant than that under which he was made, and which he had broke; and to know the evil nature of sin, its just demerit, and the atonement of it, by the death and sacrifice of the promised seed."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Genesis 3:22

 

[KenH]

If man does not have the ability to repent and believe then why are they judged for not repenting and believing?

Because, O creature, God said so. God is the Creator, Silverhair, you are the creature, and what He says goes, whether you understand it or not, whether you like it or not.

 

[percho]

Since God is totally absolutely sovereign, the answer is yes.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

"They are seriously spoken, since this was after man was brought to a sense of the evil he committed, and to repentance for it, and had had the promised seed revealed to him as a Saviour, and, as an emblem of justification and salvation by him, was clothed with garments provided by God himself: wherefore the words are to be considered either as a declaration of his present state and condition, in and by Christ, by whose righteousness he was made righteous, even as he is righteous, though he had lost his own; to whose image he was conformed, now bearing the image of the heavenly One, though he was deprived of that in which he was created, having sinned, and come short of the glory of God; and was now restored to friendship and amity with God, favoured with his gracious presence, and having faith and hope of being with him for evermore; the eyes of his understanding were enlightened by the Spirit and grace of God, to know the good things which God had provided for him in Christ, and in the covenant of grace, a better covenant than that under which he was made, and which he had broke; and to know the evil nature of sin, its just demerit, and the atonement of it, by the death and sacrifice of the promised seed."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Genesis 3:22

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'

Therefore God wanted/was determined, for man to die?

What was God bringing about the destruction, thereof?

 

[Silverhair]

Because, O creature, God said so. God is the Creator, Silverhair, you are the creature, and what He says goes, whether you understand it or not, whether you like it or not.

But Ken you continue to deny the obvious. If man has no free will then all things are determined by your version of God. And since he determines that some will not repent and believe why does he judge them as they are doing just what he determined that they would do.

Your religion does present God as rather conflicted or duplicitous not sure which.

Thankfully your version is not the God we see in scripture.

But since man does have a God given free will He can and does rightly judge those that freely reject His son.