Dying Spiritually

[JonC]

@Eternally Grateful

I have enjoyed our discussions.

We have been discussing spiritual life and the possibility of dying spiritually. Maybe it would be good to first start on things we can agree upon and go from there. This may help us define “spiritual life” as well.

These are points where I believe that we agree. If you disagree, let’s stop at the point and look at it (we do not have to agree, but I think it may help prevent speaking past one another). Reading your posts I think we agree that:

1. We are to text doctrine using the Word of God, lean not on our own understanding but on every word from God (1 Thes 5, 2 Tim 3, 1 Jn 4, Prov 3)

2. Physical life comes first, then spiritual life; Adam was created as natural man, not spiritual man, in comparison to Jesus who became a life giving spirit (1 Cor 15).

3. Spiritual life is incorruptible (1 Cor 15), given by the Spirit of God (Jn 4), everlasting (Jude 1), Christ Himself (Jn 14, Col 3), Christ living in us (Gal 2), a mind set on the Spirit (Rom 8), the spirit of God put in us (Isa 53), a life that can never end (Jn 3).

4. It is appointed man once to die and then the judgment (Heb 9)

5. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ (Rom 6)


I will mention that we disagree on Genesis 2:17.

Where I read the verse as “in the day that you eat from it [the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil] you will certainly die” you read it as “you will die on the day you eat from it”. BUT we can start by agreeing on a few things.

1. The verse literally says “in the day/age you eat dying you shall die”, but I think we both agree that sounds weird in English.

2. There are four main interpretations:
A. The certainly of death (based on the Hebrew in the passage being an infinitive absolute)
B. Spiritual death
C. The death of innocence
D. Spiritual and physical death, with the latter not occurring immediately

3. After Adam ate of the fruit God told Adam only one thing that would happen to him specifically as a consequence – he would return to the ground, for “dust you are and to dust you shall return” (Gen 3)


Am I correct in thinking that we agree on the above, and in discussing whether we can spiritually die we can assume those points are true?

 

[Van]

I am pretty sure the premise of this thread, dying spiritually, is a fallacy.

Yes, God forms our human spirit within us, within our physical body. But this would need to occur just at conception, as without the spirit, the body dies.

So the fact that each human has a human spirit seems pretty basic. So what does it mean to be spiritually dead. It means to be separated from the living God. United with God = spiritually alive, separated from God = spiritually dead.

I believe at conception we are spiritually dead, separated from God because we were "made sinners."

So it would seem we cannot spiritually die, because we are already spiritually dead.

Therefore, the spiritual transformation presented in scripture is our spiritual rebirth, where we are "made alive" or "regenerated" which describes being transferred spiritually from a separated state, the realm of darkness, into Christ where we are made alive together with Christ.

And notice I have not presented any view of the "Second Death" in the Lake of Fire, where God "could" destroy our human soul/spirit. The eternal torment folks would go bonkers.

 

[Charlie24]

I am pretty sure the premise of this thread, dying spiritually, is a fallacy.

Yes, God forms our human spirit within us, within our physical body. But this would need to occur just at conception, as without the spirit, the body dies.

So the fact that each human has a human spirit seems pretty basic. So what does it mean to be spiritually dead. It means to be separated from the living God. United with God = spiritually alive, separated from God = spiritually dead.

I believe at conception we are spiritually dead, separated from God because we were "made sinners."

So it would seem we cannot spiritually die, because we are already spiritually dead.

Therefore, the spiritual transformation presented in scripture is our spiritual rebirth, where we are "made alive" or "regenerated" which describes being transferred spiritually from a separated state, the realm of darkness, into Christ where we are made alive together with Christ.

And notice I have not presented any view of the "Second Death" in the Lake of Fire, where God "could" destroy our human soul/spirit. The eternal torment folks would go bonkers.

I agree with you've said here, Van.

We are spiritually dead until by grace through faith we become spiritually alive.

The way I see spiritual death is that obviously God created man's soul to live forever it cannot actually die as in ceasing to exist.

Man that is spiritually dead has hope in this life, "a living dog is better than a dead lion," as Solomon said. At the point of physical death if man has not been made spiritually alive, I consider that person to have died a spiritual death apart from God, the Second Death.

 

[JonC]

I am pretty sure the premise of this thread, dying spiritually, is a fallacy.

Yes, God forms our human spirit within us, within our physical body. But this would need to occur just at conception, as without the spirit, the body dies.

So the fact that each human has a human spirit seems pretty basic. So what does it mean to be spiritually dead. It means to be separated from the living God. United with God = spiritually alive, separated from God = spiritually dead.

I believe at conception we are spiritually dead, separated from God because we were "made sinners."

So it would seem we cannot spiritually die, because we are already spiritually dead.

Therefore, the spiritual transformation presented in scripture is our spiritual rebirth, where we are "made alive" or "regenerated" which describes being transferred spiritually from a separated state, the realm of darkness, into Christ where we are made alive together with Christ.

And notice I have not presented any view of the "Second Death" in the Lake of Fire, where God "could" destroy our human soul/spirit. The eternal torment folks would go bonkers.

I do believe that the idea of dying spiritually is a fallacy because it goes against everything the Bible says about life in the Spirit.

But I also think that people may define "spiritual life" differently than the verses I have used.

For example, somebody (I cant recall who) a year or so ago said that dying spiritually is a separation from God. They illustrated by Adam being cast out of the Garden where he was uniquely in God's presence (the only problem being Adam was not created in the Garden so that meant he was spiritually dead, then spiritually alive, then spiritually dead again).


But yes, "natural man" (as Adam was created) is in a state of being spiritually dead so we cannot die spiritually.

My point was more that spiritual life is everlasting life and not subject to corruption.