Can Non Calvinists Believe the Gospel Of The Kingdom? Is that Even Possible?

[Silverhair]

He would offer scripture if he could find any that he could use. Looks as if there are none.

Do you agree with these verses Z?

Joh 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Those that believe the bible do. We do not have to change the meaning of the words or make qualifications as to what the text says.

Those that do so are anti-biblical.

 

[Zaatar71]

Do you agree with these verses Z?

Joh 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Those that believe the bible do. We do not have to change the meaning of the words or make qualifications as to what the text says.

Those that do so are anti-biblical.

You deny the truth of each of these verses by how you distort the Context.
Everyone believing,
those predestined
the justified elect
all kinds of men
the sins of not in the text

 

[Silverhair]

You deny the truth of each of these verses by how you distort the Context.
Everyone believing,
those predestined
the justified elect
all kinds of men
the sins of not in the text

Your response just proved what I have been saying. Many on this board are anti-biblical as can be seen in your comments.

You ignore what the bible says and hold to a philosophy from the 4th century.

And you say I deny the truth of those verses. You really have swallowed the calvinist lie.

 

[Zaatar71]

Your response just proved what I have been saying. Many on this board are anti-biblical as can be seen in your comments.

You ignore what the bible says and hold to a philosophy from the 4th century.

And you say I deny the truth of those verses. You really have swallowed the calvinist lie.

It looks as if you have no credibility, so you keep posting the errors listed in the other post.
Your errors on still on this list,lol

1] I cannot find it in my bible !

2] It is Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy, Augustine, Calvin, blah, blah, blah !

3] Men have free will, in my bible, but not in reality,blah, blah, blah!

4] I used to be an actual Calvinist, but now, blah, blah, blah,

5] I was trapped into believing such theory, but now...Blah, blah, blah,

6] Calvinism is just wrong, because I say so, even though I cannot disprove it scripturally. blah, blah, blah...

7 ] I cannot see any doctrine if i cannot see it, in what is written...blah blah, blah

8] I used to believe it was truth, but I have departed from it...blah, blah, blah

9] I once was a Calvinist, even though, i never understood it, blah, blah, blah

10] I know millions have believed this, but I do not see how...blah, blah, blah

11] I cannot disprove it biblically, but let me offer a caricature, that I want you Calvinists to defend,...blah, blah, blah

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, and not scriptural, because I do not understand the verses correctly, blah, blah, blah

 

[Silverhair]

It looks as if you have no credibility, so you keep posting the errors listed in the other post.
Your errors on still on this list,lol

1] I cannot find it in my bible !

2] It is Manichean,Gnostic, philosophy, Augustine, Calvin, blah, blah, blah !

3] Men have free will, in my bible, but not in reality,blah, blah, blah!

4] I used to be an actual Calvinist, but now, blah, blah, blah,

5] I was trapped into believing such theory, but now...Blah, blah, blah,

6] Calvinism is just wrong, because I say so, even though I cannot disprove it scripturally. blah, blah, blah...

7 ] I cannot see any doctrine if i cannot see it, in what is written...blah blah, blah

8] I used to believe it was truth, but I have departed from it...blah, blah, blah

9] I once was a Calvinist, even though, i never understood it, blah, blah, blah

10] I know millions have believed this, but I do not see how...blah, blah, blah

11] I cannot disprove it biblically, but let me offer a caricature, that I want you Calvinists to defend,...blah, blah, blah

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, and not scriptural, because I do not understand the verses correctly, blah, blah, blah

I have seen few people that work so hard as you do to ignore the word of God.

1] Calvinism is not be found in the bible. It has to be read into the text.

2] It is based Manichean, Gnostic, philosophy, which Augustine & Calvin and later calvinists carried forward

3] Men have free will, God in His sovereignty gave man the ability to choose to trust in or reject Him

4] Never was a Calvinist, just trusted the word of God

5] Never was trapped into believing such a false religion,

6] Calvinism is wrong, because it is based on pagan philosophy from the 4th century

7 ] I believe the doctrines that are in the bible but not the man-made one's of calvinism

8] Never believed calvinism was the truth as it is an extra biblical man-made religious view.

9] Never was a Calvinist as the bible shows that it is not biblical

10] I know millions have been deceived by this and that is why I speak against it so strongly

11] The bible is the standard not your man-made religion, but those that have been deceived by calvinism will defend it to the end

12 ] PSA is only a Theory, just as all the other views are.

 

[atpollard]

Do you agree with these verses Z?

Joh 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Up to here you were off to a good start ... you were looking at blocks of text in context (although it is interesting that you stop right before the judgement is explained).

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Those that believe the bible do. We do not have to change the meaning of the words or make qualifications as to what the text says.

Those that do so are anti-biblical.

In this part, not so much context as "cherry-picking".
I am reminded of a quote "Any verse plucked from its CONTEXT, is merely a PRETEXT."


I would (personally) have preferred to see you dig deeper into John 3 ... there is a LOT of meat in that Chapter to chew on.

What does "all men" really mean?
If it means all "men without exception", then How is Jesus not teaching universalism and how can that be reconciled with other teaching about broad and narrow roads and hell that clearly deny "all men without exception" will be saved?
Could it mean "all men without distinction" - Jew and Gentile, free and slave, people from every nation, tribe and tongue? That would agree with Jesus and Apostolic teaching in other places and with John's vision of what will be in Revelation.

What of the details of the "judgement" in John 3:19-21? Men who sin will not come to the Light (Jesus), and Ephesians 2:1-3 is clear that all men sin. Does that mean all men hide from the Light (just like Adam did)? Is it significant that the judgement lays the sins at the feet of men, but the "good works" are wrought "in God"? Is that linked to the promise of Ephesians 2:8-10?

Going back to the reference to Moses, what can we learn from the story that Jesus referenced. I think there is a LOT more in that than just "Jesus will die by crucifixion". I think Jesus said that to the "Israel's Teacher" because Nicodemus would know more of the subtle message Jesus was pointing to. A Bronze snake on a pole to save a condemned people from a divine death sentence is a HECK of a parallel for Jesus to draw for an expert on the OT.

Like I said, John 3 has a LOT worth talking about.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Up to here you were off to a good start ... you were looking at blocks of text in context (although it is interesting that you stop right before the judgement is explained).


In this part, not so much context as "cherry-picking".
I am reminded of a quote "Any verse plucked from its CONTEXT, is merely a PRETEXT."


I would (personally) have preferred to see you dig deeper into John 3 ... there is a LOT of meat in that Chapter to chew on.

What does "all men" really mean?

All men.

Again, The serpent in the wilderness is an example. it was there for everyone. Every person in that wilderness with Moses could have been saved.

If it means all "men without exception", then How is Jesus not teaching universalism and how can that be reconciled with other teaching about broad and narrow roads and hell that clearly deny "all men without exception" will be saved?

Because jesus said

those who looked in faith were saved in the wilderness

those who believe inad look to the cross.

those who did not do wither will be lost. why? they did not believe

Context destroys Calvinist thinking

Could it mean "all men without distinction" - Jew and Gentile, free and slave, people from every nation, tribe and tongue? That would agree with Jesus and Apostolic teaching in other places and with John's vision of what will be in Revelation.

No.. Because this distinction does not fit John 3.

1. These people ALL believed
2. These people were saved, the ALL in john 3 had the possibility of being saved. but not everyone was. (I was not sent to judge the world. but that the world MAY be saved)

What of the details of the "judgement" in John 3:19-21? Men who sin will not come to the Light (Jesus), and Ephesians 2:1-3 is clear that all men sin. Does that mean all men hide from the Light (just like Adam did)? Is it significant that the judgement lays the sins at the feet of men, but the "good works" are wrought "in God"? Is that linked to the promise of Ephesians 2:8-10?

Yes. so they did not look to the cross in faith.. They were condemned because they did not believe. Just like the children of Israel who did not look to the serpent died. because they did not believe

Going back to the reference to Moses, what can we learn from the story that Jesus referenced. I think there is a LOT more in that than just "Jesus will die by crucifixion". I think Jesus said that to the "Israel's Teacher" because Nicodemus would know more of the subtle message Jesus was pointing to. A Bronze snake on a pole to save a condemned people from a divine death sentence is a HECK of a parallel for Jesus to draw for an expert on the OT.

Yes. And it seems calvinistic theology has totally missed the point of the serpent.. According to them, the serpent was just raised for those who would look. not everyone. which is false

Like I said, John 3 has a LOT worth talking about.

yes, I agree 100%

 

[Silverhair]

Up to here you were off to a good start ... you were looking at blocks of text in context (although it is interesting that you stop right before the judgement is explained).

Did you miss that all of the verses I posted pointed to man making the choice regarding their salvation.

Recall that Z's comment, "He would offer scripture if he could find any that he could use. Looks as if there are none."

As I said those that are anti-biblical do not accept the truth of God 's word but have to twist it change the meaning of words.

Thus the question to Z and all the anti-biblical people on this board " do you believe what these verses tell us"?

So to allay your concern, I could have added vs 18as it just added to the problem for those that deny man's free will.

In this part, not so much context as "cherry-picking".
I am reminded of a quote "Any verse plucked from its CONTEXT, is merely a PRETEXT."

The context is vs 3-14 but as we see vs 13 points again to man making a real choice which is something that the anti-biblical can not accept as it does not fit their religion.

Since the point of my post was to correct Z's error of there not being any scripture to support my contention that many in the anti-biblical group will deny clear scripture I posted verses that they do not support.

 

[atpollard]

Did you miss that all of the verses I posted pointed to man making the choice regarding their salvation.

Recall that Z's comment, "He would offer scripture if he could find any that he could use. Looks as if there are none."

As I said those that are anti-biblical do not accept the truth of God 's word but have to twist it change the meaning of words.

Thus the question to Z and all the anti-biblical people on this board " do you believe what these verses tell us"?

So to allay your concern, I could have added vs 18as it just added to the problem for those that deny man's free will.



The context is vs 3-14 but as we see vs 13 points again to man making a real choice which is something that the anti-biblical can not accept as it does not fit their religion.

Since the point of my post was to correct Z's error of there not being any scripture to support my contention that many in the anti-biblical group will deny clear scripture I posted verses that they do not support.

Fair enough. You had a limited goal and you selected verses that supported that goal. That is not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

 

[Silverhair]

Fair enough. You had a limited goal and you selected verses that supported that goal. That is not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

Not a limited goal. I answered Z's post.

 

[Zaatar71]

Not a limited goal. I answered Z's post.

Hey Silverhair,

I posted Romans 5:1-11, and went through all 11 verses giving the meaning. I would like you to do the same!

 

[Zaatar71]

Silverhair,

I went back and found this post. I took time to go verse by verse in Romans5:1-11.
I state my belief clearly, I am asking you to go through these same verses, and offer your understanding.
Romans5 Is speaking only of the Elect. You normally do not pay attention to the context, but for the sake of others we can look here;
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

A] {Only the saved Elect have peace with God. Only the saved Elect are justified. When bible students follow the context, the whole passage opens up.}

2 By whom also [we] have access by faith into this grace wherein [we] stand, and [rejoice in hope] of the glory of God.

b], {we, we, rejoice in hope}......only the justified elect do that.

3 And not only so, but[we glory in tribulations] also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

c] WE glory in tribulation......... still the justified elect!..getting the picture silverhair?


4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; [because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.]

d] Here we are told where the love of God is, in the heart of the justified Elect.


6 For when [we] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

e] Still the justified ELECT

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward [us,] in that, while[ we] were yet sinners, Christ died for[ us.]

f ] we, we, us, still the justified elect.



9 Much more then, [being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.]

G] justified, we, saved from wrath, ...the justified ELECT


10 For if, when [we] were enemies, [we] were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, [being reconciled], [we] shall be saved by his life.


H] we, we, being reconciled, we shall be saved......the justified ELECT


11 And not only so, but [we also joy in God] through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [we have now received the atonement.]

Only the justified elect are in view!

 

[Silverhair]

Hey Silverhair,

I posted Romans 5:1-11, and went through all 11 verses giving the meaning. I would like you to do the same!

Simple answer Z We have peace with God through His son, Christ Jesus.

You miss the message when you ignore what Paul stated in the 1st verse "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Paul even repeated it in vs 2 "we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand"

If you deny man's faith is the reason that God saves them then you miss what the bible is telling you.

Who were those that Christ died for Z?
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Are you saying that only the calvinists are ungodly sinners?

Paul then states the result of our being saved by the grace of God through our faith.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

What you fail to understand is that one is only elect when they are in the "Elect One" Christ Jesus.

Understanding the biblical message is not that hard once you take off those tinted glasses.

As long as you follow that anti-biblical view you will continue to miss the message of God's love for His creation.

 

[Zaatar71]

Simple answer Z We have peace with God through His son, Christ Jesus.

Thanks for starting a response. What I mean is, I want you to go over the passage verse by verse. Do not cherry pick the verses and skip through it!...Who has peace with God? Do all men ever born have peace with God?

You miss the message when you ignore what Paul stated in the 1st verse "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Paul even repeated it in vs 2 "we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand"

If you look at my post, I did not ship verse, one, or any other verse.

If you deny man's faith is the reason that God saves them then you miss what the bible is telling you.

I deny that because that is not a biblical teaching. I want you to work through this passage.

Who were those that Christ died for Z?

The elect

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

what happened to vs 3,4, 5,?

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

What happened to vs.7?

Are you saying that only the calvinists are ungodly sinners?

No, read how I went over this passage, tell me where I got it wrong, without you skipping over the verses.

Paul then states the result of our being saved by the grace of God through our faith.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Understanding the biblical message is not that hard once you take off those tinted glasses.

As long as you follow that anti-biblical view you will continue to miss the message of God's love for His creation.

Simple answer Z We have peace with God through His son, Christ Jesus.

You miss the message when you ignore what Paul stated in the 1st verse "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Paul even repeated it in vs 2 "we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand"

If you deny man's faith is the reason that God saves them then you miss what the bible is telling you.

Who were those that Christ died for Z?
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Are you saying that only the calvinists are ungodly sinners?

Paul then states the result of our being saved by the grace of God through our faith.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

What you fail to understand is that one is only elect when they are in the "Elect One" Christ Jesus.

Understanding the biblical message is not that hard once you take off those tinted glasses.

As long as you follow that anti-biblical view you will continue to miss the message of God's love for His creation.

 

[Silverhair]

Thanks for starting a response. What I mean is, I want you to go over the passage verse by verse. Do not cherry pick the verses and skip through it!...Who has peace with God? Do all men ever born have peace with God?

Did not cherry pick verses Z. What is the over all message in those verses Z?

Peace with God through our Faith in Him. That is what I addressed.

Who has peace with God, those that have trusted in Him which is what we are told in vs 1 "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," & 2 " we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand"

How did you miss that Z?

I deny that because that is not a biblical teaching. I want you to work through this passage.

You may deny that faith is the reason that God saves them but you are ignoring the text Z.

The elect

So only your elect are sinners and ungodly. But if that were true than why are all those that are not ungodly sinners condemned? Since they are not ungodly sinners, according to you, then they would all be saved. So since you say the elect are saved and those that are not elect will be saved because they did not sin that means everyone will be saved you are promoting universalism.

what happened to vs 3,4, 5,?

Nothing, did not having them change anything in the post? No it did not.

What happened to vs.7?

Same for vs 7.

No, read how I went over this passage, tell me where I got it wrong, without you skipping over the verses.

You get it wrong when you throw in your anti-biblical views rather than just trust what the word of God says.

We are saved by the grace of through faith just as Paul has said many times.

Even Jesus made that clear, are you going to disagree with Him?
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I am sorry that you do not like what I posted Z. The really sad part is that you do not even see the obvious error in your thinking.

 

[Zaatar71]

Did not cherry pick verses Z. What is the over all message in those verses Z?

But you did cherry pick the verses as you do often...I will show you!

Peace with God through our Faith in Him. That is what I addressed.

You did not really identify who? men are justified by faith, never because of faith as you suggest!

Who has peace with God, those that have trusted in Him which is what we are told in vs 1 "having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," & 2 " we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand"

Yes, but you think men have that faith by themself, apart from God! I believe scripture is clear it is a gift!

How did you miss that Z?

I did not miss it! Did you even read my post?

You may deny that faith is the reason that God saves them but you are ignoring the text Z.

Nope, watch again... Before you go off on your rabbit trail, here are the verses you skipped SH;
3 And not only so, but[we glory in tribulations] also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

c] WE glory in tribulation......... still the justified elect!..getting the picture silverhair?


4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; [because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.]

d] Here we are told where the love of God is, in the heart of the justified Elect. SH, only the elect get the Holy Spirit, all men do not get the Spirit.. you skipped over this, and also tha e fact that the passage in context is speaking of the JUSTIFIED!

So only your elect are sinners and ungodly.

No Sh, You do not read carefully or follow the context at all do you? All men are born ungodly.. even the elect. They have also sinned in Adam. So no...your conclusion totally misses the point. You could not do what I asked you to do, so in order to rebel against truth you start a rabbit trail!

But if that were true than why are all those that are not ungodly sinners condemned?

Jesus saves a multitude of ungodly sinners, known in Scripture as "the Elect".

Since they are not ungodly sinners, according to you,

I never said that SH!!! Can you show me any post where I said that?? You cannot, so why say such a thing? Does your hatred of biblical truth force you to say such things?

then they would all be saved. So since you say the elect are saved and those that are not elect will be saved because they did not sin that means everyone will be saved you are promoting universalism.

I never said any such thing, now your false snowball of error is turning into an avalanche. You are your own problem.

Nothing, did not having them change anything in the post? No it did not.

Already you have attempted to alter the whole post!, lol.

Same for vs 7.

You get it wrong when you throw in your anti-biblical views rather than just trust what the word of God says.

No, I have actual shown why you get it wrong then attempt to twist things to then make your false claims.

We are saved by the grace of through faith just as Paul has said many times.

Yes we are. A God given faith.

Even Jesus made that clear, are you going to disagree with Him?

Another false charge by you. Very Sad!

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes, I like that verse very much, and I understand the whole context, I do not cherry pick like you do!

I am sorry that you do not like what I posted Z. The really sad part is that you do not even see the obvious error in your thinking.

On the contrary, I have exposed your sad posting and false charges. Thanks for trying!

 

[Silverhair]

But you did cherry pick the verses as you do often...I will show you!

Z it may shock you but I used the verses that show the truth of Paul's message. You just do not like the message.

You did not really identify who? men are justified by faith, never because of faith as you suggest!

Who do you think are saved by faith Z? So you are disagreeing with the word of God. You really are lost in that anti-biblical view.

Yes, but you think men have that faith by themself, apart from God! I believe scripture is clear it is a gift!

Well it is not from their friend or neighbor. Each person will be judged by whether they reject or believe, have faith in, the risen Son. Well if you think it is clear it is a gift that just shows you do not understand scripture. Salvation is the gift of God.

I did not miss it! Did you even read my post?

Ya I did but it is just you trying to support your false view by reading into the text what is not there.

No Sh, You do not read carefully or follow the context at all do you? All men are born ungodly.. even the elect. They have also sinned in Adam. So no...your conclusion totally misses the point. You could not do what I asked you to do, so in order to rebel against truth you start a rabbit trail!

When you follow the rabbit trail of your view then you end with universalism.

Nope, watch again... Before you go off on your rabbit trail, here are the verses you skipped SH;
3 And not only so, but[we glory in tribulations] also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

c] WE glory in tribulation......... still the justified elect!..getting the picture silverhair?


4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; [because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.]

d] Here we are told where the love of God is, in the heart of the justified Elect. SH, only the elect get the Holy Spirit, all men do not get the Spirit.. you skipped over this, and also tha e fact that the passage in context is speaking of the JUSTIFIED!

The point Paul was making in those verses was our peace with God through faith. You are the one going down rabbit trails Z.

Jesus saves a multitude of ungodly sinners, known in Scripture as "the Elect".

Yes He does and they are saved through faith and those are the ones that are then called the elect as they are in the "Elect One". No one is elect outside of Him, that is just another of the anti-biblical views that are presented on this board.

I never said that SH!!! Can you show me any post where I said that?? You cannot, so why say such a thing? Does your hatred of biblical truth force you to say such things?

Now if you are a "good" calvinist then you think some were Elect before the foundation of the world and only they will be saved. Now to quote you "Only the saved Elect are justified." So since we see that Christ came to save ungodly sinners then only your calvinist Elect must be ungodly sinners since according to the bible He came to save ungodly sinners. So logically that would mean that everyone else must not be ungodly sinners. In which case since they are not and you say Christ saved all you ungodly sinners that leaves no one unsaved as God only condemns the ungodly sinners. So as I said before you are promoting universalism.

I never said any such thing, now your false snowball of error is turning into an avalanche. You are your own problem.

See above comment.

Already you have attempted to alter the whole post!, lol.

Did my post say that we have peace with God through faith in Him? Ya it sure did.

No, I have actual shown why you get it wrong then attempt to twist things to then make your false claims.

What false claims Z? I just quoted scripture and said what the word of God says.

Yes we are. A God given faith.

God does not give us faith. He does provide the information that enables us to make real choice.

Another false charge by you. Very Sad!

I point out that you disagree with Jesus and you call that a false claim. You are really lost Z.

Yes, I like that verse very much, and I understand the whole context, I do not cherry pick like you do!

Glad you like John 3:18 now do you believe it?

On the contrary, I have exposed your sad posting and false charges. Thanks for trying!

The fact I do not agree with your anti-biblical rant when I point you back to the word of God seems to really upset you.

You have followed a false philosophy and think it is the truth and that is really sad.

 

[Zaatar71]

You just do not like the message.

I like the God centered Biblical message. Not the false man centered one you offer.

So you are disagreeing with the word of God.

I never disagree with scripture. you keep accusing me and the other brethren?

You really are lost in that anti-biblical view.

Your opinion is noted, but as it is a false accusation, it has no credibility, You accuse once again.

. Each person will be judged by whether they reject or believe, have faith in, the risen Son.

No, Each person will be judged as to if they have their sin covered by the blood of Jesus.

Well if you think it is clear it is a gift that just shows you do not understand scripture.

You do not believe that saving faith is part of the great salvation that is given as a gift from God? This shows that you have another gospel, which I do not think can save.

Salvation is the gift of God.

Yes, this is true if understood.

Ya I did but it is just you trying to support your false view by reading into the text what is not there.

As long as youthink biblical truth is a false view, you will never be a part of it. Just want to be clear to you. You are free to believe as you want to.

When you follow the rabbit trail of your view then you end with universalism.

Yet, another false made up charge, as you cannot seem to comprehend what is being discussed. I do not and never have believed in any universalism, despite your claim. Do you have trouble being honest SH? You do not need to agree with me, but do not invent things I never posted, or things I do not believe.

Yes He does and they are saved through faith and those are the ones that are then called the elect as they are in the "Elect One".

This happnes before the world was, execising saving Faith, is the culmination of God's election. NOT the cause of it!

No one is elect outside of Him, that is just another of the anti-biblical views that are presented on this board

You do not understand biblical election still to this day. All those Elected, are ELECT IN HIM!

.

Now if you are a "good" calvinist then you think some were Elect before the foundation of the world and only they will be saved.

Yes, I am a bible believer believing what is taught.

Now to quote you "Only the saved Elect are justified."

One of the few things you actually quote correctly. God does not justify those who remain outside of Christ. God does not justify any non elect person. In heaven there will be no non elect persons.

So since we see that Christ came to save ungodly sinners then only your calvinist Elect must be ungodly sinners

Showing you do not understand basic bible teaching such as: romans 3:23 All sinned! Little children get this.

since according to the bible He came to save ungodly sinners.

Yes he does. A multitude of ungodly sinners were elected before the world was. They are given to Jesus, he seeks and saves them, no more, no less. It cannot be simplified anymore than that.

So logically that would mean that everyone else must not be ungodly sinners.

Your carnal logic shows why man centered thought fails. Not only that, but this is not a sound example of logic at all,lol. this is warped!

In which case since they are not and you say Christ saved all you ungodly sinners that leaves no one unsaved as God only condemns the ungodly sinners. So as I said before you are promoting universalism.

I apologize if you are unable to actually understand what is being said.

God does not give us faith.

If God does not grant a person saving faith, he will never receive the salvation of God.

He does provide the information that enables us to make real choice.

Man does not need a little bit more information, He needs a new heart that only comes from the Spirit Of God. Ezk 36;25-27

You are really lost Z.

I once was lost, but now I am found, was blind, but now I see! I thank God for that.

Glad you like John 3:18 now do you believe it?

The fact I do not agree with your anti-biblical rant when I point you back to the word of God seems to really upset you.

I am not upset at all. I feel sorry for you.

You have followed a false philosophy and think it is the truth and that is really sad.

Right off the anti Cal playlist, lol have a nice day. Thanks for trying.

 

[Silverhair]

I like the God centered Biblical message. Not the false man centered one you offer.

I never disagree with scripture. you keep accusing me and the other brethren?

Your opinion is noted, but as it is a false accusation, it has no credibility, You accuse once again.

No, Each person will be judged as to if they have their sin covered by the blood of Jesus.

You do not believe that saving faith is part of the great salvation that is given as a gift from God? This shows that you have another gospel, which I do not think can save.

Yes, this is true if understood.

As long as youthink biblical truth is a false view, you will never be a part of it. Just want to be clear to you. You are free to believe as you want to.

Yet, another false made up charge, as you cannot seem to comprehend what is being discussed. I do not and never have believed in any universalism, despite your claim. Do you have trouble being honest SH? You do not need to agree with me, but do not invent things I never posted, or things I do not believe.

This happnes before the world was, execising saving Faith, is the culmination of God's election. NOT the cause of it!

You do not understand biblical election still to this day. All those Elected, are ELECT IN HIM!

Yes, I am a bible believer believing what is taught.

One of the few things you actually quote correctly. God does not justify those who remain outside of Christ. God does not justify any non elect person. In heaven there will be no non elect persons.

Showing you do not understand basic bible teaching such as: romans 3:23 All sinned! Little children get this.



Yes he does. A multitude of ungodly sinners were elected before the world was. They are given to Jesus, he seeks and saves them, no more, no less. It cannot be simplified anymore than that.

Your carnal logic shows why man centered thought fails. Not only that, but this is not a sound example of logic at all,lol. this is warped!

I apologize if you are unable to actually understand what is being said.

If God does not grant a person saving faith, he will never receive the salvation of God.


Man does not need a little bit more information, He needs a new heart that only comes from the Spirit Of God. Ezk 36;25-27

I once was lost, but now I am found, was blind, but now I see! I thank God for that.

I am not upset at all. I feel sorry for you.

Right off the anti Cal playlist, lol have a nice day. Thanks for trying.

You seem to be under the impression that the false philosophy brought into the church in the 4th century by Augustine is the standard by which the word of God is to be judged. That is why your views go of track.

You hold to your anti-biblical views and I will hold to the word of God.

 

[Zaatar71]

You seem to be under the impression that the false philosophy brought into the church in the 4th century by Augustine is the standard by which the word of God is to be judged. That is why your views go of track.

You hold to your anti-biblical views and I will hold to the word of God.

Bye,Bye