Charlie Kirk debates regarding the Pope & other

[Charlie24]

“ Baptism now saves you “

You are viewing scripture by the wrong interpretive lense of human interpretation, namely Zwingli’s wrong interpretation.

This is why heretics are so bad. When Zwingli twisted scripture by his erroneous new interpretation of Scripture, he stole the truth from many generations that followed after him, down to you.

When you follow Zwinglis interpretations of scripture, you aren’t following scripture, you are following Zwingli.

Even Luther and Calvin thought Zwingli was a nut case calling Baptism symbolic, he was against the entire Christian world and all Christianity going back to the Apostles.

Look at the origin of your interpretation of scripture and doctrine, it all goes back to Zwingli.

If someone follows a wrong interpretation of infallible Scripture, they aren’t following Scripture.

No Cathode, let's get the full sentence in that Peter said.

"The like figure (symbol of baptism) whereunto even baptism does also now save us...."

Peter is representing water baptism as a "like figure" a symbol of the baptism that saves us.

Paul tells us what that baptism is in Colossians 2.

It's the circumcision of Christ!

 

[37818]

“ Baptism now saves you “

Like Noah and family was saved in the flood that destroyed the world.
1 Peter 3:20, . . . wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. . . .

 

[Cathode]

No, I'm just dead set against adding anything to salvation other than faith in the finished work of Christ ALONE!

Well that’s not how we see Christ operate in Scripture, Jesus appointed human agents to proclaim His Salvation to all the world and baptise them, Jesus didn’t do all this work alone.

The Apostles and successors could only do this because of Christ’s finished work on the Cross.

Christ’s human agents save people by extension.

“I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.”

Christ’s work on the Cross is finished for Salvation, but Christ’s work through His agents on earth for Salvation isn’t finished.

So the work of proclamation and baptism for Salvation continues through Jesus agents on Earth.

 

[Charlie24]

Well that’s not how we see Christ operate in Scripture, Jesus appointed human agents to proclaim His Salvation to all the world and baptise them, Jesus didn’t do all this work alone.

The Apostles and successors could only do this because of Christ’s finished work on the Cross.

Christ’s human agents save people by extension.

“I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.”

Christ’s work on the Cross is finished for Salvation, but Christ’s work through His agents on earth for Salvation isn’t finished.

So the work of proclamation and baptism for Salvation continues through Jesus agents on Earth.

"Jesus didn't do all the work alone" for our salvation?"

My goodness, the hair is standing up on the back of my neck!

Oh man, this is really bad, Cathode! Salvation is hanging by a thread!

 

[Cathode]

"Jesus didn't do all the work alone" for our salvation?"

My goodness, the hair is standing up on the back of my neck!

Oh man, this is really bad, Cathode! Salvation is hanging by a thread!

Who was Paul saving and what from?

Was Paul proclaiming Salvation through Paul or Christ?

Was Paul proclaiming Faith in Paul or Faith in Christ?

Why was Paul out there saving people, why wasn’t Jesus out there ALONE doing it?

See my point yet.

 

[Charlie24]

Who was Paul saving and what from?

Was Paul proclaiming Salvation through Paul or Christ?

Was Paul proclaiming Faith in Paul or Faith in Christ?

Why was Paul out there saving people, why wasn’t Jesus out there ALONE doing it?

See my point yet.

I'm speaking of the premise in which we are justified before God.

Paul can't justify anyone, he could only point to the Justifier and how we can become justified.

And he made it clear that justification is found only in Christ, not by any associated works by man.

 

[Cathode]

No Cathode, let's get the full sentence in that Peter said.

"The like figure (symbol of baptism) whereunto even baptism does also now save us...."

Peter is representing water baptism as a "like figure" a symbol of the baptism that saves us.

No, it doesn’t say Baptism is symbolic, it says the waters of Noah’s flood is symbolic of “Baptism that now saves you. “

Note the error in your interpretation here.

After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—

Baptism has a spiritual effect, it’s not meant to clean the body, it cleans the conscience which is of the Soul.

“not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

Baptism doesn’t save in your theology but it does in Scripture, and in the majority of Christianity which interprets scripture correctly on Baptism.

 

[Charlie24]

No, it doesn’t say Baptism is symbolic, it says the waters of Noah’s flood is symbolic of “Baptism that now saves you. “

Note the error in your interpretation here.

After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—

Baptism has a spiritual effect, it’s not meant to clean the body, it cleans the conscience which is of the Soul.

“not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

Baptism doesn’t save in your theology but it does in Scripture, and in the majority of Christianity which interprets scripture correctly on Baptism.

Let me see if I can explain it to where at least you can understand what I see.

The waters in the flood represents the symbol of being saved for Noah and his family.

The water actually saved no one, it was God's wrath on sin. What saved Noah was his faith and obedience in building the Ark and entering into it when God told him to.

The water lifted up the Ark to safety, but it was the Ark that actually saved Noah.

The physical water lifting up the Ark to safety is the symbol of the spiritual faith Noah had in God through the Ark that actually saved him.

Do you see the physical and the spiritual application of Peter? The physical baptism symbolizing the spiritual baptism.

Here is the spiritual baptism represented by the physical water baptism.

Col. 2:11-13

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

 

[Cathode]

I'm speaking of the premise in which we are justified before God.

Paul can't justify anyone, he could only point to the Justifier and how we can become justified.

And he made it clear that justification is found only in Christ, not by any associated works by man.

So there was some human agency happening.

If Paul did nothing, no proclamation, no writing, Jesus ALONE would have saved people?

No. Jesus appointed human agents to proclaim His Salvation thereby bringing His Salvation to others. So there is Christ’s finished work ON THE CROSS, for Salvation, then there is the work of His Body the Church, His human agents proclaiming that finished work on the Cross for Salvation.

I can't place any faith for salvation in a ceremony where I'm depending on another man to perform it.

Would you have told Peter to get lost then when he was proclaiming the gospel.

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

First off you don’t believe in Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, Baptism is just symbolic to you, and doesn’t do anything.
This is contrary to Scripture.

 

[Charlie24]

Let me see if I can explain it to where at least you can understand what I see.

The waters in the flood represents the symbol of being saved for Noah and his family.

The water actually saved no one, it was God's wrath on sin. What saved Noah was his faith and obedience in building the Ark and entering into it when God told him to.

The water lifted up the Ark to safety, but it was the Ark that actually saved Noah.

The physical water lifting up the Ark to safety is the symbol of the spiritual faith Noah had in God through the Ark that actually saved him.

Do you see the physical and the spiritual application of Peter? The physical baptism symbolizing the spiritual baptism.

Here is the spiritual baptism represented by the physical water baptism.

Col. 2:11-13

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

@Cathode

The spiritual baptism, the circumcision made without hands is what happens the very instant a person believes. it takes place in the heart of man, it's the circumcision of the heart that Jeremiah and Isaiah prophesied. The Circumcision of Christ performed by the Holy Spirit which is our born-again experience.

You are spiritually baptized into Christ by faith, this is represented in water baptism as the symbol of what took place in heart the moment you believed.

 

[Charlie24]

@Cathode

The spiritual baptism, the circumcision made without hands is what happens the very instant a person believes. it takes place in the heart of man, it's the circumcision of the heart that Jeremiah and Isaiah prophesied. The Circumcision of Christ performed by the Holy Spirit which is our born-again experience.

You are spiritually baptized into Christ by faith, this is represented in water baptism as the symbol of what took place in heart the moment you believed.

Of course you are a Catholic, wrapped up in ceremonies and the adding of works to the finished work of Christ.

You will not accept what I have shown you, you can't, it takes away from the works you love that save you.

 

[Cathode]

Of course you are a Catholic, wrapped up in ceremonies and the adding of works to the finished work of Christ.

You will not accept what I have shown you, you can't, it takes away from the works you love that save you.

So you would have told Peter to get lost when he said?

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

Do you even believe in Baptism for the forgiveness of sin?

“Baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. “

Baptism isn’t symbolic, it has a spiritual effect on the Soul, and clears our conscience of sin toward God, it is for the forgiveness of our sins.

This has always been being “ Born again of water and Spirit “

 

[Charlie24]

So you would have told Peter to get lost when he said?

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

Do you even believe in Baptism for the forgiveness of sin?

“Baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. “

Baptism isn’t symbolic, it has a spiritual effect on the Soul, and clears our conscience of sin toward God, it is for the forgiveness of our sins.

This has always been being “ Born again of water and Spirit “

No, I would have applauded Peter and gave him a big hug, if he would have allowed that.

Peter said "Repent" first, and that brought the forgiveness of sins. The water baptism had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

You better get it right, Cathode. Salvation is hanging by a thread!

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but there is no other situation in anyone's life more serious than this!

 

[Charlie24]

No, I would have applauded Peter and gave him a big hug, if he would have allowed that.

Peter said "Repent" first, and that brought the forgiveness of sins. The water baptism had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

You better get it right, Cathode. Salvation is hanging by a thread!

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but there is no other situation in anyone's life more serious than this!

@Cathode

You should be able to see in John the Baptist's baptism that water had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

His baptism was a baptism of repentance. It was the repentance that wiped away sins, the water only washed the dust from their clothing.

The water was the symbol of the prophesied "circumcision of the heart" our actual born-again experience.

 

[Cathode]

No, I would have applauded Peter and gave him a big hug, if he would have allowed that.

Peter said "Repent" first, and that brought the forgiveness of sins. The water baptism had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

That’s your words not what the scriptures says. It doesn’t say “repent and your sins are forgiven”

“and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

It clearly says to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

I can’t believe you would add your own words to Scripture man. This is worse than uncool.

 

[Charlie24]

That’s your words not what the scriptures says. It doesn’t say “repent and your sins are forgiven”

“and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

It clearly says to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

I can’t believe you would add your own words to Scripture man. This is worse than uncool.

I can't believe that you can't see that only the Blood of Christ can wash away sin through repentance.

There will be no excuse for this!

It's on you if you can't see that the repentance is what forgives sin!

Adding water baptism or anything else to salvation is saying the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was not enough.

You are totally misunderstanding Peter, very serious mistake!

 

[Cathode]

I can't believe that you can't see that only the Blood of Christ can wash away sin through repentance.

There will be no excuse for this!

It's on you if you can't see that the repentance is what forgives sin!

Adding water baptism or anything else to salvation is saying the death, burial and resurrection of Christ was not enough.

You are totally misunderstanding Peter, very serious mistake!

Mate, you totally added your own words to Scripture, I’m shocked man.

This is not good.

“and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

Scripture is clearly telling you here and you are denying it.

Well. It’s on you Charlie.

 

[Charlie24]

Mate, you totally added your own words to Scripture, I’m shocked man.

This is not good.

“and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”

Scripture is clearly telling you here and you are denying it.

Well. It’s on you Charlie.

If you want to add to the requirement of salvation that a man must perform a ceremony on your behalf for you to be saved, then go right ahead.

Ain't no cows in Texas if this is not works for salvation. And you know what Paul said about that!

 

[Cathode]

If you want to add to the requirement of salvation that a man must perform a ceremony on your behalf for you to be saved, then go right ahead.

Ain't no cows in Texas if this is not works for salvation. And you know what Paul said about that!

Well, if you have to add to or deny the scripture to try win your argument, you lost anyway.

I just still can’t believe you would so blatantly add your own words and then deny the clear text in front of your face, and think nothing of it.

I’m genuinely shocked mate.

 

[Charlie24]

Well, if you have to add to or deny the scripture to try win your argument, you lost anyway.

I just still can’t believe you would so blatantly add your own words and then deny the clear text in front of your face, and think nothing of it.

I’m genuinely shocked mate.

Better be making sure that the forgiveness of sins comes from water baptism or by the Blood of Christ through repentance.

It can't be both! Either Christ did it all for you, or you have to help Him out.