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Total depravity or total inability?

5 point Gillinist

Active Member
Christ said, "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me."

If the draw is a definite salvation as you suggest, then you must be a Universalist.
That was said in the context of Greeks desiring to speak with Jesus. It was being said in regards to all nations, not literally all men.
 

5 point Gillinist

Active Member
I used to own James White and Dave Hunts book on their debate over TULIP. I threw it away about ten years ago because is was mauled from being kept in moldy places. I wished that I still had it now.
Was it any good? I know you're not of the reformed persuasion but White is a good author and has written many helpful books beneficial to the body.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Who said it was ?
To quote you BF "you following your theory". I have told you many times I only trust the word of God and I quote the word of God and you say it is my theory.

So you are in effect calling the word of God a theory.

Now your 4th century philosophy is a theory.
 

Dave...

Active Member
Was it any good? I know you're not of the reformed persuasion but White is a good author and has written many helpful books beneficial to the body.

Hey 5

I'm testing. I like to think I'm reformed, but perhaps loosely. I have no problem with God's sovereignty over man. My understanding of the relationship between man and the Holy Spirit from OT to NT will not allow me to believe that OT believers could be born again to believe. Me thinks that's backwards from Scripture. This puts a damper on the TULIP system for me. These days reformed is defined too stringently.

I thought White was good back then. But I would like to revisit the debate because the main point of Dave Hunts "What love is this" book became much more profound since seeing that same point in C.S. Lewis' comment posted earlier, and the point of the video using that same argument. Posts #21 (argument) and #43 (quote only). I'm thinking that maybe I didn't give Dave Hunt a fair listen back then.

I always considered people of the Arminian view to be stuck at the starting gates, if you will, or worse, devolved Calvinists, retracting because of the flesh. But for me, as I question Calvinism, this thing is coming full circle. Calvinists, traditionally, like myself before, won't allow themselves to consider that anything from the Arminianism camp is beyond them in study, but must place it in a lesser understanding or a shrinking back category. So they debate as if any non Calvinist views are new Christians who just don't yet understand. It's very hard to take them out of the traditional debates and think outside the system.

Anyways, I'm testing myself, and finding out that the parts of Calvinism that I agreed with isn't holding up so well.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
To quote you BF "you following your theory". I have told you many times I only trust the word of God and I quote the word of God and you say it is my theory.

So you are in effect calling the word of God a theory.

Now your 4th century philosophy is a theory.
But you can't be following the word of God and reject Tulip which is founded on the word of God.
 
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