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The Enemies Of The Cross of Christ:

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Paul is addressing the Philippians , and In chapter 3 he explains that the Judaizers were an enemy trying to enforce OT. Circumcision;
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

He identified himself as having been a previous enemy of the Church;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Later in this same chapter he warns of others;
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

These are self centered, self righteous people who seek to drag others down with them! Misery loves company!

NOG
In the end they will be destroyed. Their own emotions are their god, and they take pride in the shameful things they do. Their minds are set on worldly things.

MSG
Stick with me, friends. Keep track of those you see running this same course, headed for this same goal. There are many out there taking other paths, choosing other goals, and trying to get you to go along with them. I’ve warned you of them many times; sadly, I’m having to do it again. All they want is easy street. They hate Christ’s Cross. But easy street is a dead-end street. Those who live there make their bellies their gods; belches are their praise; all they can think of is their appetites.

It is clear that some who seek to oppose the truths of the doctrines of grace are seeking to do this day ,by day. They make as if they are trying to help, but it has become obvious they have a selfish agenda! They try to cover this saying, they alone have discovered the secret to how to understand scripture. They offer up names of early church fathers or other obscure theologians that no one has read, as if this gives them credibility,lol...it does not.
Even if they mention more familiar names of theologians, they never demonstrate that they know what they are talking about. They know that people will just gloss over it.
The result is they show themselves to be in the same mold of the enemies of the cross that Paul warned about in his writing to the Church at Philippi. These men eagerly pick up "the mantle" of previous enemies, and bring it into our day. Post after post against believers who understand and hold to Calvinistic truth derived from the scripture. They are mockers ,and scoffers, with no real substance.

It is not legitimate questions that new believers might have, asking for clarification or requesting to be instructed.
It is not even a person who studies themselves into a position that they hold that might differ slightly, where they come to partial truth, and are still seeking to grow.
No, they intend to completely undermine truth. It is purposefully evil in design. Paul would have us be aware of such persons, mark them and avoid them,
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
The Apostle Peter , commenting on Paul's writings wrote this;
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

In this context, I am going to suggest that he was speaking of Election, predestination, and Biblical Foreknowledge! He warns also of those who wrest the scriptures to their own destruction!

We see daily examples of this very thing.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
The Apostle Peter , commenting on Paul's writings wrote this;
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

In this context, I am going to suggest that he was speaking of Election, predestination, and Biblical Foreknowledge! He warns also of those who wrest the scriptures to their own destruction!

We see daily examples of this very thing.
very dangerous theology being upheld in present age that distorts and death doctrines such as original Sin, Fall, Spiritual death, wrath of God, atonement, as seems that some want to undermine and redo past 2ooo years of Christian theology in those areas now

I am thinking of some like a NT Wright who wishes to redefine Pauline Justication to us, claiming that all of the Reformed got Paul all wrong in this area, or those who want to uphold theology such as a Finney had in church for "salvation"
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
very dangerous theology being upheld in present age that distorts and death doctrines such as original Sin, Fall, Spiritual death, wrath of God, atonement, as seems that some want to undermine and redo past 2ooo years of Christian theology in those areas now

I am thinking of some like a NT Wright who wishes to redefine Pauline Justication to us, claiming that all of the Reformed got Paul all wrong in this area, or those who want to uphold theology such as a Finney had in church for "salvation"
Yes, he is a good example. he is an educated person, but what happens when an educated person goes off track drifting into theological apostasy??? the education they have gets weaponized against truth, and hence they become enemies of the cross! Good example!
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Yes, he is a good example. he is an educated person, but what happens when an educated person goes off track drifting into theological apostasy??? the education they have gets weaponized against truth, and hence they become enemies of the cross! Good example!
Amazing so many want to ride on his theology express, yet he also holds to infant water baptism as way into the Kingdom, and also that God will judge us after death to see if we merit keeping eternal life
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Amazing so many want to ride on his theology express, yet he also holds to infant water baptism as way into the Kingdom, and also that God will judge us after death to see if we merit keeping eternal life
False teachers spin a good yarn. They are deceptive yet like a perverted theological spider, they weave a web of their own designed, a self serving rpetitive handful if ideas, they repeat it over and over, so often that they themselves even think it is true:confused::oops::Sleep;)
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Amazing so many want to ride on his theology express, yet he also holds to infant water baptism as way into the Kingdom, and also that God will judge us after death to see if we merit keeping eternal life
I believe I have been seeing some right here on this board, who have drifted from truth. They claim they have looked at it, some suggest that they used to hold to it, but their posts give no evidence of that any of what they post is true. In fact, the complete opposite is revealed by error after error that they offer, trying to obscure truth, 24/7
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Here is an example of just such a post; The poster said this, and when I went to repost it, it was removed, and it seemed I was blocked on that thread? How does that happen?

Here was the example;

It was the poster JohnC
Calvinism treats God as if He were "the old man upstairs". They view the mind of God snd the mind of man as equal in nature and power (God cannot achieve His will in salvation except this go against man's will). The only way God can be sovereign is to decree all that occurs. Why? Because that woukd be the only way for man to be completely sovereign. God cannot be above man, man cannot be below God.
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Here once again, I will address such a one who has showed himself to be an enemy of the cross, The poster johnC

he asked a question last night on the provisionism thread, but when I showed him what he posted JOHNC., where he claimed Calvinism looks at God as an old man, he not only showed he lack of understanding, but when I went to respond, I saw my answer was removed from the thread???Then I was told I do mot have enough privilege to respond or something like that?// insufficient privilege????

So Il looked today, and he is till addressing me, so I will pull some of those posts to this thread. John posted this!

This is a very solid presentation among all who believe and Know the truth. You compare scripture with scripture to refine your understanding which is essential. Those who have turned from truth might suggest this is a theory rather than biblical teaching, it could be they do not understand what you have presented, or perhaps they have gotten lost in the theological weeds. This teaching is welcome in every church I have attended or visited, except for one little apostate methodist church. Thanks for this fine post!
The passages @Martin Marprelate present are indeed excellent and relevant.

The problem is that a few of you (you, @David Lamb , @Martin Marprelate ) seem to consider those passages alone as foolishness.

Not one of us has posted anything close to this, so this is clearly dishonest by JohnC. He has been challenged on this several times in the past few weeks, but he insists on posting dishonest slander.
Rather than taking God's words for what they are in themselves you trust in what men have said they "realky m" teach.
Each of us study scripture as the primary means of sanctification. We have posted this to you, yet you persist in your dishonest posting.
This is no different from any cult (in method) who tell their disciples what God "really" teaches.
WHAT IF those passages are teaching EXACTLY "what is written"??
Here he wrongly assumes that we do not believe that scripture is written??? what a bizarre post on his part.

What is Scripture interprets Scripture?
Scripture does interpret scripture, but you do not accept the verses that clarify the other verses, we do accept all scripture. The thing is we understand the significance of each of the verses and how they explain and fulfill each other. You do not, but then you deny when they answer you.
Then you all would be wrong.
Except not one of us is sloppy in searching out truth. Not one of us leans on our own understanding as you do.
Instead of picking a sect of men to believe, why not just believe God? The difficult oassages will be ime less difficult the more you rest in His words. Don't pick men. Choose God.

Notice how John posts partial verse not even in dispute, the rewords others to try and justify his nonsense. You see this in post 48..he lists things no one is asking about! he then changes the concept that Paul gave us in Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
he has been asked dozens of times , what happens to the wrath that was upon all of us? he skips over it and says...the wicked will be punished, ignoring the wrath that was upon us also.LOL We are not supposed to notice how he skips past it, look at all his posts. he has the same M.O. ship the real question, then offer verses no one is asking about, then claim you only go by scripture, sad and laughable at the same time.
Yes, you cannot dispute my belief without disputing God's word. But you do anyway.
All of us and others who do not post, see you are out of the mainstream. Rather than thank Martin, you insult him in every post.
You ask nonsense questions (like "what happens to God's wrath?" as if wrath were a material thing God keeps in His pocket).
It is not nonsense as you say, this is another indicator as why you are an enemy of the cross.
The wicked store up wrath for themselves for the day of wrath. (Yes, that is a verse in the Bible...God's words).
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

This does not say the wrath was against only the unsaved...it was against us also. So if God punishes all sin, how were the sins of the elect punished? You avoid the answer because you deny the Divine Substitute, and His work.
Where do the wicked put this wrath while they are waiting for that Day? Why don't they just flush it down the toilet?
I cannot even take you as a credible poster, this comment is useless.
Why does God put it that way - that the wicked are the ones storing up this wrath?
because Jesus was not their substitute.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is an example of just such a post; The poster said this, and when I went to repost it, it was removed, and it seemed I was blocked on that thread? How does that happen?
This is something that has happened to me. I advise you to make a copy of everything you write on this board.
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Here is yet another sad example, of an attack by an enemy;
No, I have and you have no right (you lack the capacity) to determine what I believe or have believed.

The difference between our faiths is that I believe God's Word teaches God's words. You believe the men you choose to follow are correct when they reinforce your philosophy.

I can defend my belief using God's words. You cannot.
This poster does this 24/7 ,it does not matter if it is a pastor, a poster, a respected theologian, he is locked in on attacking the foundations of faith, and offering his own flawed ideas, claiming he is being scriptural! here are two more;
Scripture interprets Scrioture, @Martin Marprelate . No need for theories.
You are so focused on paganism you cannot grasp God's words right in front of you.
He is speaking of a godly pastor, yet his attack is that he follows pagan ideas, instead of scripture, when this pastor has buried him with scripture for a long time evidently. Rather than learning from what was offered, it turns to a continuous dripping, repeating failed arguments, and distorted philosophy ,instead of any form of exegesis. Here is another;
3. Why the cross? Because God used it as a symbol in Scripture. When the Isralites considered somebody guilty of a crime worthy of death they were esteemed stricken by God. But we also have history (since you seem so averse to Scripture). If Jesus was actualky cursed by God He would have been murdered under the Law (the punishment fir blasphemy is death by stoning).
here it is again;
I know that God's actual words are foolishness to you. You have made that abundantly clear. It is not what God said, in your estimation, that matters but what the men you worship have told you that the Bible teaches.
the non stop personal attack continues;
God's word says one thing, you believe anither thing (what you think is really taught, your understanding).

You should have trusted not in your own understanding but in every word that comes form God.
I get that. God's words to you are foolishness. You look to men, to philosophy, to theory. His words alone simply do not make sence to you. The natural cannot understand the things of the Spirit. So you have to trust in men, in your own understanding.
They thought of Jesus as a blasphemer because they, like you, rejected God's words for their own understanding.
This being spoken from a keyboard warrior to a Godly Pastor!
 
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Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
These shameful examples are not meant to edify at all. It is a poor attempt to try and diminish the truth of God being offered fro a twisted distortion of the biblical texts being discussed!
We see in what is written, that Satan used this same method evidently; Lk.4...Jesus quoted scripture with proper understanding, Satan tried to claim he was going by "what was written" but he left out the proper understanding and spoke in a condescending, unkind way to the Lord Jesus Christ!
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
So Satan and those who use this method, are known enemies of the Cross of Christ. Like when Satan tried to use peter, to suggest Jesus should not go to the cross to accomplish the Penal substitutionary Atonement
Stack Exchange Biblical hermenutics

9
Many interpret Jesus' words in Matthew 16:23 as evidence that Satan manipulated Peter into attempting to dissuade Jesus from going to the cross (see the top answers to this related question for examples of people holding this view). Matthew 16:21-23 (ESV) below for reference:
21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” 23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”
However, Luke 22:3-6 (ESV) is very explicit in telling us that Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, using him as an instrument to betray Jesus and ultimately have him crucified:
3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. 4 He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he consented and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd.
Did Satan want Jesus crucified or not?
 
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Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Another post, Another insult??? Here is JohnC...doing what he does best
Ypir faith is not only foreign to God's words, it also stands in opposition to God's Word. It is anti-Christian

I know you jave been carried away from the faith by your philosophy. That is what often happens when men determine to lean on their own understanding rather than every word that comes from God
So I do not post for your benefit

I post for others to evaluate your teachings against "what is written" (every word that comes from God) so they, unlike you, may be delivered from the deception that has carried you away
 

Zaatar71

Well-Known Member
Galatians 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Yes, the truth had been taught by Jesus and the Apostles. These enemies suggested Jesus, the Apostles, and believers had it all wrong! They wanted us to listen to them rather than believe the mainstream truth.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Yes, the truth had been taught by Jesus and the Apostles. These enemies suggested Jesus, the Apostles, and believers had it all wrong! They wanted us to listen to them rather than believe the mainstream truth.
see the New way of understanding Paul by Wright Dunn Sanders, as they all affirm that the reformers and all Christians have misunderstood what he really meant by Pauline Justification, but they are here to clear that all up for us now
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
very dangerous theology being upheld in present age that distorts and death doctrines such as original Sin, Fall, Spiritual death, wrath of God, atonement, as seems that some want to undermine and redo past 2ooo years of Christian theology in those areas now

I am thinking of some like a NT Wright who wishes to redefine Pauline Justication to us, claiming that all of the Reformed got Paul all wrong in this area, or those who want to uphold theology such as a Finney had in church for "salvation"
I agree.

I have read where people deny that God can forgive sins because they teach that divine justice prevents Him from doing so - so He transfers those sins to His Elect and punishes them on Him so that the sinner escapes the wratg to come.

I have also read these same people say that Jesus is not the propitiation for sins but instead suffered God's wrath because His wrath cannot be propitiated.


I agree also that NT Wright's theology is questionable, but I cannot call his theology any worse than those I just mentioned because where they flat out deny Scripture Wright just interprets Paul's writings according to 1st century Judiasm (and he also holds many Catholic traditions, but I cant think of any that flat out reject Scripture).
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yes, he is a good example. he is an educated person, but what happens when an educated person goes off track drifting into theological apostasy??? the education they have gets weaponized against truth, and hence they become enemies of the cross! Good example!
This is true.

Many have chosen to follow men who may be educated but lack wisdom. They turn to philosophy and theiries because they cannot discern spiritual things. To them God's words are foolishness.

And these are enemies of the Cross.

How many times have we seen "Christians" claim that God punished Jesus or our sins laid on Him? That is a direct refutation of God's Word - Jesus is the Propitiation for our sins. Sins cannot be punished and propitiated (obviously). Thinking themselves wise they become fools.

How many times have we seen "Christians" claim that God punished our sins on Christ because God cannot really forgive sins? Again, a denial of God's own words (sins are punished OR forgiven, obviously not both).

But many who say "Lord, Lord" will hear "I never knew you".


Those who trust not in their understanding but lean on every word that comes from God are on a narrow path. We do not represent the majority of those who call themselves "Christisns", but our faith is much older than these newer philosophies.


The solution is to lean on God's words. If you cannot highlight it in the Bible then hold it loosely as an opinion. If it contradicts what is in the biblical text, abandon it.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yes, the truth had been taught by Jesus and the Apostles. These enemies suggested Jesus, the Apostles, and believers had it all wrong! They wanted us to listen to them rather than believe the mainstream truth.
Amen....kinda.....mainstream is not what we should seek (the Way is narrow, many who call Jesus "Lord" will hear "I never knew you"). Be the remnant of the truly faithful. Maintain the teachings of God (His words).

Today so many trace their doctrine back to Augustine (original sin), to the RCC a century later *the nature of the Fall) or to John Calvin (the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement).

So few today hold a faith that extends back to the 1st century when Christians clung to the actual words of God.


But we DO have the teachings of God. We have His words. So many stray from the faith to follow men, ultimately carried away from the faith by their philosophy. The seed starts to grow but dies.

But even in this God will be glorified. Their condemnation demonstrates His holiness.


The best thing we can do is insist that people provide the passages stating their belief.

If their belief on essential truths departs from what is actually written then they are speaking of theory and philosophy, perhaos in danger of being carried away from the faith or perhaos already having been carried away from the faith.
 
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