Do you believe the once saved can again be lost?

[Silverhair]

As Jesus said, let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Just answer yes or no.

According to Hebrews 6, if a person loses their salvation, can they get it back?

Peace to you

If you are not able to believe the word of God then I you will not believe my word either.

But here is the word of God once again. This what I believe so take it from there.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible
for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away—
to be restored to repentance,
because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

Now try real hard to see if maybe you can figure out my answer.

 

[Silverhair]

No. According to Hebrews 6, it is “impossible”.
(I just wanted to prove that the question could be answered.)

This, of course, assumes that “enlightened” means “saved”, “fallen away” means “lost salvation” and “restored to repentance” means “get it back” … which are reasonable assumptions, but one should be specific when claiming “thus says Scripture”.

I have answered his question more than once. He just does not seem capable of grasping what is being said.

 

[atpollard]

I have answered his question more than once. He just does not seem capable of grasping what is being said.

I read those verses, think of others and suddenly have 100 questions. As I mentioned, I find the exact wording of scripture important and "Christian-speak" (like "saved" & "lost" & "fall away") to be terms with sloppy definitions.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

The description - "once been enlightened" and "tasted the heavenly gift" and "shared in the Holy Spirit" and "tasted the goodness" - sounds a whole lot more specific and involved than just "believed" or "heard the word" (as in the Luke parable of soils). I wonder at the difference and its significance?

Also "fallen away" sounds different from "if anyone does sin" (1 John 2:1), so I wonder at the difference and its significance?

Lastly, "restored to repentance" is not "saved" - they are similar and perhaps related, but the phrases are not identical. The crowd in Acts 2 did not cry out "What must we do to be restored to repentance?". I wonder at the difference and its significance?

I find promises that God will keep his elect til the end.
I find promises that repentance and forgiveness is possible for saints that sin.
Therefore, THIS [Hebrews 6:4-6] must be something different from THAT. [So will My word be which goes out of My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11]

 

[atpollard]

I am reminded of an old joke ...

"I am confident that I cannot lose MY SALVATION, now, you on the other hand" ... [shrug] ... "who knows?"

SALVATION is always in the "first person": my salvation; I am saved
DAMNATION is always in the "third person": they fell from grace; y'all can lose salvation

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning:
This thread will be closed no sooner than 2100 GMT 3 pm EST / 12 N PST

 

[Silverhair]

I read those verses, think of others and suddenly have 100 questions. As I mentioned, I find the exact wording of scripture important and "Christian-speak" (like "saved" & "lost" & "fall away") to be terms with sloppy definitions.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

The description - "once been enlightened" and "tasted the heavenly gift" and "shared in the Holy Spirit" and "tasted the goodness" - sounds a whole lot more specific and involved than just "believed" or "heard the word" (as in the Luke parable of soils). I wonder at the difference and its significance?

Also "fallen away" sounds different from "if anyone does sin" (1 John 2:1), so I wonder at the difference and its significance?

Lastly, "restored to repentance" is not "saved" - they are similar and perhaps related, but the phrases are not identical. The crowd in Acts 2 did not cry out "What must we do to be restored to repentance?". I wonder at the difference and its significance?

I find promises that God will keep his elect til the end.
I find promises that repentance and forgiveness is possible for saints that sin.
Therefore, THIS [Hebrews 6:4-6] must be something different from THAT. [So will My word be which goes out of My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it. - Isaiah 55:11]

I have thought them through as well and did not come to the position I have lightly. The idea that some will spend an eternity separated from God tears at my soul. That some that have known God and trusted in Him for their salvation and then turn away and repudiate Him is to me unthinkable but is what I see in scripture.

God will keep His elect, those that are in Christ through faith. But that is the key phrase, that are in Christ. We as Christians will stumble and fall in sin but through confession of those sins we will be restored.
That is where I see the difference with Heb 6:4-6. It is not that they stumble, they have turned away and repudiated the only means of salvation.
I see the soils, Luk 8:13-14, as warnings of the what can happen to Christians who have allowed worldly things to overcome their trust in God.

I take both the promises and the warnings seriously. Those that only see one and not the other are not trusting the whole word of God.

Pro 3:5-7 are key verses for me.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding;
Pro 3:6 in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

 

[canadyjd]

If you are not able to believe the word of God then I you will not believe my word either.

But here is the word of God once again. This what I believe so take it from there….

Heb 6:4

Now try real hard to see if maybe you can figure out my answer.

Ok, based on the passages you quoted I “figure” you agree with scripture and if a person can lose their salvation they cannot never get it back.

Thank you for clarifying that you agree with me….

Twice lost always lost.

Since we have it all figured out now, no need for further posts.

Peace to you

 

[Van]

No verse or passage says or suggests a person, once saved under the New Covenant in His Blood, can then somehow lose that salvation. None, Zip, Nada.

Hebrews 6:4 - for "it" is impossible. What is impossible? It is impossible to leave behind elementary teachings. In other words, it is impossible to move beyond the presentation of the gospel, if the recipients exhibit less than a full embrace.

Hebrews 6:6 -the reason, they crucify to themselves, they kill any chance for acceptance of the Son of God.

Simply put, you have to get started before you can move on. These people are unsaved, their "faith" is not the sort God would credit as righteousness.

Rather than producing useful vegetation, with soils of this type, the "rain" the blessing of the gospel, produces thorns and thistles.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

So why would anyone think these folks were saved? For the purpose of an agenda driven rewrite.

 

[Silverhair]

No verse or passage says or suggests a person, once saved under the New Covenant in His Blood, can then somehow lose that salvation. None, Zip, Nada.

Hebrews 6:4 - for "it" is impossible. What is impossible? It is impossible to leave behind elementary teachings. In other words, it is impossible to move beyond the presentation of the gospel, if the recipients exhibit less than a full embrace.

Hebrews 6:6 -the reason, they crucify to themselves, they kill any chance for acceptance of the Son of God.

Simply put, you have to get started before you can move on. These people are unsaved, their "faith" is not the sort God would credit as righteousness.

Rather than producing useful vegetation, with soils of this type, the "rain" the blessing of the gospel, produces thorns and thistles.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

So why would anyone think these folks were saved? For the purpose of an agenda driven rewrite.

@Van all you are doing is proving that you do not read. Heb 6:4-6 is clear when you get past your OSAS view and let the word of God say what it says and not what you want it to say.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible
for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away—
to be restored to repentance,
because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

 

[Van]

@Van all you are doing is proving that you do not read. Heb 6:4-6 is clear when you get past your OSAS view and let the word of God say what it says and not what you want it to say.

Heb 6:4 It is impossible
for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away—
to be restored to repentance,
because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

Yet another post addressing me, yet another proof of the false doctrine of loss of salvation.

No verse or passage says or suggests a person, once saved under the New Covenant in His Blood, can then somehow lose that salvation. None, Zip, Nada.

Hebrews 6:4 - for "it" is impossible. What is impossible? It is impossible to leave behind elementary teachings. In other words, it is impossible to move beyond the presentation of the gospel, if the recipients exhibit less than a full embrace.

Hebrews 6:6 -the reason, they crucify to themselves, they kill any chance for acceptance of the Son of God.

Simply put, you have to get started before you can move on. These people are unsaved, their "faith" is not the sort God would credit as righteousness.

Rather than producing useful vegetation, with soils of this type, the "rain," the blessing of the gospel, produces thorns and thistles.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

So why would anyone think these folks were saved? For the purpose of an agenda driven rewrite.

 

[Silverhair]

Yet another post addressing me, yet another proof of the false doctrine of loss of salvation.

No verse or passage says or suggests a person, once saved under the New Covenant in His Blood, can then somehow lose that salvation. None, Zip, Nada.

Hebrews 6:4 - for "it" is impossible. What is impossible? It is impossible to leave behind elementary teachings. In other words, it is impossible to move beyond the presentation of the gospel, if the recipients exhibit less than a full embrace.

Hebrews 6:6 -the reason, they crucify to themselves, they kill any chance for acceptance of the Son of God.

Simply put, you have to get started before you can move on. These people are unsaved, their "faith" is not the sort God would credit as righteousness.

Rather than producing useful vegetation, with soils of this type, the "rain," the blessing of the gospel, produces thorns and thistles.

None of the above is deep or requires significant study, it is right there for all to see.

So why would anyone think these folks were saved? For the purpose of an agenda driven rewrite.

Van you just keep proving that you cannot or rather will not follow a logical line of thought as shown in Heb 6:4-6.

Using you logic then we have to question whether these people were saved

Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Remember Van it is the same Holy Spirit the caused those words to be written. What makes you think one was saved and other was not?

 

[Van]

Van you just keep proving that you cannot or rather will not follow a logical line of thought as shown in Heb 6:4-6.

Using you logic then we have to question whether these people were saved

Eph 1:13 And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Remember Van it is the same Holy Spirit the caused those words to be written. What makes you think one was saved and other was not?

I have been reading and comprehending the same things with others for decades. Your claim my studied view of Hebrews 6:4-6 is not shared by many students is just more agenda driven hogwash.

To repeat for the umpteenth time, only when and if God determines whether a person "believes" does the belief result in salvation.

I do not believe you cannot grasp the obvious, thus it seems to me you are being deceitful.

 

[Silverhair]

I have been reading and comprehending the same things with others for decades. Your claim my studied view of Hebrews 6:4-6 is not shared by many students is just more agenda driven hogwash.

To repeat for the umpteenth time, only when and if God determines whether a person "believes" does the belief result in salvation.

I do not believe you cannot grasp the obvious, thus it seems to me you are being deceitful.

Van the bible says:

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

What it does not say is that now you have to wait to see if God will determine if your faith is good enough. You are reading your view into scripture Van.

And this has been pointed out to you for the umpteenth time.

 

[Van]

Van the bible says:

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

What it does not say is that now you have to wait to see if God will determine if your faith is good enough. You are reading your view into scripture Van.

And this has been pointed out to you for the umpteenth time.

Totally off topic, again seemingly pretending an inability to comprehend the issue of who decides whether a person "believes" such that God takes action based on that belief.

All these ad hominem asides are just a pathetic effort to hide the fact loss of salvation is false doctrine.

 

[Salty]

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