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Not merited is the primary condition of election!
- Thread starter 37818
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Ascetic X
Active Member
It is in error to say God saves you, then you believe. That formulation has it backwards.
Acts 16:31
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
I Peter 1:9
… for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Romans 10:9,10
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Acts 16:31
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
I Peter 1:9
… for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
Romans 10:9,10
If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Instead of answering the question you now shift to something previous.
You truly have no answers to the bible, you just keep change the topic to a different verse.
No, stay on topic and answer the scripture. But with this thread as a clear demonstration to all onlookers, you just continue to demonstrate how Calvinism cannot hold to scripture and you must do everything you can to not face it!
Edit: Can you address these verses?!
I know you believe this first one:
Your view on faith makes Jesus statement here non-sensical.
Again your view makes God insane… Jesus wondering if He will find faith that only God can give? Crazy talk interpretation
Perhaps the most damning verse against your view. Jesus is praying the the faith God gave them will not fail. Now Jesus doesn't trust that the faith God has given is strong enough to make it!
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Where is the verse at ? You just running off at the mouth
You hold Too weak a position to answer. But you are demonstrating the weakness of your theology with every post!
Answer Romans 3! Stay on topic then ill move to yours.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Where is the verse ? You just running off at the mouth
Good Grief - the Insanity defense of Calvinism continues. "Faith is given to access Grace" No mention that the "giving of faith" is via "Irresistible Grace."
These people are not willing to accept truth, and seemingly will post gibberish to hide it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I thought I said that. Thats True Rom 5:2
2 by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God
The elect who are Justified and reconciled to God by the death of Christ, have a standing in the grace and favor of God, however being in a unregenerate dead state in sin by nature, they don't know it. But sooner or later Christ regenerates them, gives them Faith and then they have have access to it, the knowledge of it comes then, then they can go to the throne of Grace freely in faith.
Regeneration preceeding faith…Its a nice theological sequence you have, but as you said earlier “its just you running off at the mouth.”
Its why he will never answer basic question or give basic scripture to actually support his view.
I have realized that this is what hardening oneself looks like.
At least I know now that BF is not an honest debater, wont stick to a point, and isnt interested when scripture contradicts him.
These are people to avoid and simply not reply to, sadly. With how prolifically he posted I thought he would be worth talking to but, but actually the one liners are simply non-productive.
Sadly, we all suffer from what is called "confirmation bias" where we "see" what we are looking for, rather than what is actually before us.
When we study the bible, one of the tools is to ask God to help us evaluate objectively, and to see what does not fit with our previous understanding. Another tool is translation comparison. Say I read the NASB this way, but say the NIV has a different take. Usually I end up believing the NASB hits closer to the mark, but not always. A fresh version, like fresh eyes, sometimes unlocks a blind spot. Best wishes.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Which you good at
The insanity continues, note the absence in Romans 5:2 of faith being "given!" They are charlatans folks, twisting what they say, what I say and what the bible says to defend obviously false doctrines.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Note the change the subject ploy, the hallmark of false teachers when exposed.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yet another off topic post for the purpose of suppressing discussion of biblical doctrine.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Consider Romans 5:2, which says "we have gained access by faith, into this grace...."
I say, post # 53: "First he agrees faith provides access to grace, but then returns to the vomit, and claims God's grace instills faith. Insanity on display!
So this Calvinist rewrite changes "we have gained access by faith" to we have been given faith to gain access.
Never-mind, the faith is given by "irresistible grace" thus the Calvinist lunacy is God's grace gives us faith by which we gain access to -wait for it - grace. One would think we had access to grace when we were given faith by grace. But no, the insanity defense just merrily marches on, ignoring reality to hide false doctrine.
Do not let the deceivers change the subject, just read Romans 5:1-2 and decide if the passage says we gain access to grace by faith. If you can see that it does, then you know the sequence,
1) we were exposed to the gospel
2) we understood it and embraced it, putting our "faith" in the name of Christ.
3) God then credited our faith, as worthless as it might have been, as righteousness.
4) Thus we gained access to God's grace by faith.
Next, consider the implication - we were chosen for salvation NOT unconditionally, but "through faith in the truth" when God credited our faith as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
Bottom line we gained access to having our faith credited as righteousness, when we trusted in Christ, and then IF God chose to credit our faith, an act of His grace, we also were chosen for salvation, His act of additional grace, the grace in which we now stand.
I say, post # 53: "First he agrees faith provides access to grace, but then returns to the vomit, and claims God's grace instills faith. Insanity on display!
So this Calvinist rewrite changes "we have gained access by faith" to we have been given faith to gain access.
Never-mind, the faith is given by "irresistible grace" thus the Calvinist lunacy is God's grace gives us faith by which we gain access to -wait for it - grace. One would think we had access to grace when we were given faith by grace. But no, the insanity defense just merrily marches on, ignoring reality to hide false doctrine.
Do not let the deceivers change the subject, just read Romans 5:1-2 and decide if the passage says we gain access to grace by faith. If you can see that it does, then you know the sequence,
1) we were exposed to the gospel
2) we understood it and embraced it, putting our "faith" in the name of Christ.
3) God then credited our faith, as worthless as it might have been, as righteousness.
4) Thus we gained access to God's grace by faith.
Next, consider the implication - we were chosen for salvation NOT unconditionally, but "through faith in the truth" when God credited our faith as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
Bottom line we gained access to having our faith credited as righteousness, when we trusted in Christ, and then IF God chose to credit our faith, an act of His grace, we also were chosen for salvation, His act of additional grace, the grace in which we now stand.