Archangel Michael being the Angel of Jehovah.

[Ascetic X]

No. John Gill [1697-1771] affirms the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 9, 'Yet Michael the archangel,.... By whom is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ; as appears from his name Michael, which signifies, "who is as God": and who is as God, or like unto him, but the Son of God, who is equal with God? and from his character as the archangel, or Prince of angels, for Christ is the head of all principality and power; and from what is elsewhere said of Michael, as that he is the great Prince, and on the side of the people of God, and to have angels under him, and at his command, Da 10:21. . . .'

John Gill cannot affirm the deity of Jesus Christ, while simultaneously claiming the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus, as the "Word of God" and "Light of the World" was created on day 1 of Creation by Yahweh as the heavenly archangel Michael before he came to earth as Jesus, and that he is still known in heaven as Michael since his resurrection.

Daniel 10:13 says Michael is “one of the chief princes”:

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was standing in my way for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

Arguments Against Jesus Being Michael:

• Nature: The Bible distinguishes Jesus as the Creator (Colossians 1:16) and Son of God, but never calls Jesus an Angel, while Michael is a created angel.
• Worship: Scripture dictates that angels are not to be worshipped, yet Jesus receives worship, indicating he is not a created being.
• Authority: In Jude 1:9, Michael the archangel does not rebuke Satan directly, but refers to God, whereas Jesus holds supreme authority and rebukes demons and the devil directly.
• Definition: Hebrews 1:5-8 argues that God never called any angel His Son, specifically distinguishing Jesus from angels.

 

[JesusFan]

Why? If His Name Michael means He is.
like God. Remember John 8:24.
Zachriah 3:2, And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, . . .
Jude 1:9, . . . Yet Michael the archangel, . . . said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Jesus created Michael

 

[JesusFan]

John Gill cannot affirm the deity of Jesus Christ, while simultaneously claiming the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus, as the "Word of God" and "Light of the World" was created on day 1 of Creation by Yahweh as the heavenly archangel Michael before he came to earth as Jesus, and that he is still known in heaven as Michael since his resurrection.

Arguments Against Jesus Being Michael:

• Nature: The Bible distinguishes Jesus as the Creator (Colossians 1:16) and Son of God, but never calls Jesus an Angel, while Michael is a created angel.
• Worship: Scripture dictates that angels are not to be worshipped, yet Jesus receives worship, indicating he is not a created being.
• Authority: In Jude 1:9, Michael the archangel does not rebuke Satan directly, but refers to God, whereas Jesus holds supreme authority and rebukes demons and the devil directly.
• Definition: Hebrews 1:5-8 argues that God never called any angel His Son, specifically distinguishing Jesus from angels.

Think those who hold to that heresy regrading nature and person of Jesus also tie it into when Jesus returns, with the voice of the arch angel
Yes, both John Calvin and John Gill, among other historical Protestant theologians, identified Michael the Archangel as a title for the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ in their commentaries on Daniel and Jude. They viewed Michael not as a created angel, but as the eternal Son of God acting as the defender of the church.
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• John Calvin: In his Commentaries on the Book of the Prophet Daniel, Calvin stated he embraced "the opinion of those who refer this [Michael] to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people".
• John Gill: The Baptist theologian wrote regarding Jude 1:9 that by Michael, "is meant, not a created angel, but an eternal one, the Lord Jesus Christ".
• Distinction from Non-Trinitarians: Unlike modern Jehovah's Witnesses who believe Jesus is a created angel, Calvin and Gill held this view while affirming that Jesus is fully divine and part of the Trinity, identifying Michael simply as a title for His role as the chief commander of heavenly forces.
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Other theologians holding similar views include Matthew Henry and John Wesley.
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[37818]

Jesus created Michael

?

The identity of the Archangel being revealled in Zachriah 3:1-2, And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Jude 1:9 being the earlier event. Michael being the sole Archangel.

 

[JesusFan]

?

The identity of the Archangel being revealled in Zachriah 3:1-2, And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Jude 1:9 being the earlier event. Michael being the sole Archangel.

Michael was not Jesus

 

[37818]

Michael was not Jesus

Are you sure?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Zachriah 3:2, . . . And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, . . .
Jude 1:9, . . . said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[37818]

Jude 1:9, . . . επιτιμησαι σοι κυριος
LXX, Zachriah 3:2, . . . επιτιμησαι κυριος εν σοι . . . .

 

[Ascetic X]

Are you sure?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel…

Zachriah 3:2, . . . And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, . . .
Jude 1:9, . . . said, The Lord rebuke thee.

“With the voice of the archangel” does not mean Michael the archangel and Jesus are the same person. Jesus will utter an authoritative command, the archangel will call or cry out, and a blast will come from God’s trumpet. 3 different things in unison.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 RSV

“For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”

Jude 1:9 proves that Michael is NOT Jesus Christ. Jesus had authority to rebuke the devil directly, as He did during His temptations in the desert, when Jesus said to Peter “Satan get thee behind me!”, and indirectly when He cast out demons. Jesus would and did dare…

“Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'"

 

[Walter]

“With the voice of the archangel” does not mean Michael the archangel and Jesus are the same person. Jesus will utter an authoritative command, the archangel will call or cry out, and a blast will come from God’s trumpet. 3 different things in unison.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 RSV

“For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”

Jude 1:9 proves that Michael is NOT Jesus Christ. Jesus had authority to rebuke the devil directly, as He did during His temptations in the desert, when Jesus said to Peter “Satan get thee behind me!”, and indirectly when He cast out demons. Jesus would and did dare…

“Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'"

Exactly-Thessalonians 4:16 ("archangel's voice")—is rejected because “with an archangel's voice” implies a characteristic of the voice, not that Jesus is the archangel.

 

[37818]

@Ascetic X, @Walter,n

I acknowledge the now modern view Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are interpreted not to be the same person.

But there was a time when Trinitarians held Michael the Archangel was the preincarnate Christ. It is a matter of fact.

John Gill [1697-1771] is an example.

 

[37818]

AI Quote:

Trinitarians Who Identified Michael as Pre-incarnate Christ:

John Calvin (1509–1564): Commented on Daniel 12:1–4, suggesting Michael represents Christ as the defender of the Church.

Matthew Henry (1662–1714): In his widely used commentary on the Bible, he identified Michael as the pre-incarnate Jesus.

John Gill (1697–1771): In his Exposition of the Old and New Testaments, he noted on Jude 1:9 that Michael refers to the "uncreated" Angel, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jonathan Edwards (1703–1758): Held a similar view, interpreting relevant biblical passages as referring to Christ.

Charles Spurgeon (1834–1892): Referred to Jesus as "the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon".

 

[Ascetic X]

@Ascetic X, @Walter,n

I acknowledge the now modern view Jesus Christ and Michael the Archangel are interpreted not to be the same person.

But there was a time when Trinitarians held Michael the Archangel was the preincarnate Christ. It is a matter of fact.

John Gill [1697-1771] is an example.

You can find strange doctrines and odd exegesis in every great theologian. None of them are 100% perfect, but we rejoice in the wonderful insights they provide to us. I love Charles Finney’s writings on repentance, revivals, true conversions, worldly entertainment, etc. But he apparently did not believe in the original sin doctrine.

 

[Ben1445]

?

The identity of the Archangel being revealled in Zachriah 3:1-2, And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Jude 1:9 being the earlier event. Michael being the sole Archangel.

Zechariah 3 says nothing about the body of Moses. The two passages are not parallel.

 

[Oseas3]

Jesus created Michael

John 1:3 -> All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

Matthew 11:7-15:
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.


And now? Who will come before the return of JESUS? to pepare the environment and transition from the second heavenly place(Ephesians 1:3-10, and so on) to the third heavenly place according to the 2Corinthians 12:2-4 combined with Acts 3:20-21, and 1Thessalonians 4:16, and Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Luke 20:35-36? Is not he Michael? Of course it is he.


It is Michael who sounds the seventh trumpet->(Revelation 11:15-18). And it is he who will cast the red dragon, the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, out from heaven->(Revelation 12:3, take a look) to the earth, and his messengers will also be cast out with him. It is Michael who will cast down the Devil into the bottomless pit->Revelation 20:1-4,

Revelation 12:10-13:
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea!(Gentile nations) for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

To all

Be prepared or else get ready

Revelation 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Ben1445]

AI Quote:

Ai has a tendency to confirm what you want to hear and will go as far as creating events that never happened.

Does your AI provide its sources?

What they think will still not change my mind.
Zechariah is not talking about Moses, as it would be were Jude referring to that place.
And Jesus is not one of the chief princes. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is not one among few. He is One over all.

 

[Ben1445]

Exactly-Thessalonians 4:16 ("archangel's voice")—is rejected because “with an archangel's voice” implies a characteristic of the voice, not that Jesus is the archangel.

At the point of saying Jesus has the voice of an archangel, you might as well be saying that Jesus is sounding the trumpet.

I think it is more likely, and also fits the reading and context if it is read as being heralded by an archangel. Just because the sound of a trumpet and the voice of the archangel are with Him, does not mean that they are Him.

Personally, I see Jesus described with things but never as another being. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even Melchizedek is made like the Son of God and not the other way around.

Hebrews 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

It is normal to say that someone after is like someone before as in “the spirit and power of Elijah” spoken of John.
But Jesus is first. Melchizedek is like Jesus. Jesus is described with color and objects and things we can relate to.

I give exception to the above statement in the coming of Christ as a man. Moses said that a Prophet would arise “like unto me.” In this statement, Moses declares that the Prophet that will be hearkened to is a Man.

But we are discussing a glorified Saviour. We have gone past the Man who will come to the Lord of Lords and King of kings.

Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Walter]

Michael was not Jesus

And, neither was Melchizedek a pre-incarnate Christ (as I was taught at California Baptist University).

Melchizedek is not a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus, but rather a historical personage who serves as a type or prefiguration of Christ. He is a priest-king of Salem (prace) who offers bread and wine, prefiguring the Eucharist and the eternal priesthood of Jesus.