Many of us in the SBC agree we are independent!
What makes you think we are not?
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SBC Disfellowships 2 Churches at February Executive Committee Meeting for Appointing Women as Pastors
- Thread starter OLD SARGE
- Start date
What makes you think we are not?
I don't know much about the SBC, but our IFB independently supports missionaries.
Back in the day, don't know about now, that was a difference.
So, what are you independent from?
Good!Amen and Amen!
SBC Disfellowships 2 Churches at February Executive Committee Meeting for Appointing Women as Pastors
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has chosen to discontinue its relationship with two congregations that employ women as pastors.churchleaders.com
1) Your "IFB" what? or do you mean your local IFB church?
2) Our local SBC church does financially support the SBC cooperative missions program
3) We are NOT required to support the SBC cooperative missions
4) Our local SBC church does support an IFB missionary (he serves in Canada)
Why would you not know if your local church currently supports missions
I guess my post was confusing, let me clarify.
All the IFB Churches I know or have known independently support missionaries.
Back in the day when I was a kid and up that was one of the noticeable in the SB and the IFB.
I don't much about the SB, or if that is still a difference in the SB and IFB Churches.
OLD SARGE
Active Member
SBC is not as strict as the IFB though that is changing. My grandson is a youth pastor for an IFB church where men can have beards. even the pastor. I was IFB for 40+ years. Took an exploratory detour for about six years in an Assembly of God church and now a member of a Southern Baptist Texas Convention Church that follows the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message.
The IFB Church I've been in for the past 30 years is not as strict as the one I was raised up in, but still strict by most standards.
I do not agree with your terminology.
I'm not aware of a "the IFB". There are however thousands of IFB churches.
What is this "I was IFB"?
You may have been a member or pastor of an IFB church, but You were not IFB.
Let me un-confuse you!
There are two basic differences with SBC churches and un-affiliated Baptist churches AKA IFB churches
1) We both financially support missionaries.
A.
1. The SBC has two mission boards - 1) Home & 2) Foreign - an in essence of employees of the boards. They do not have to worry if their support will come
2. There are scores of IFB mission boards. Each must have a home staff. Thus a lot of $$ cost to run those offices. Suppose 3 or 4 very small mission boards were to merge - think of the cost savings.
B. IFB has: Missionaries who must spend months if not years raising support (Esp initial term missionaries) They must contact hundreds of churches to hope that 10-20% will invite them - and then trust that at least 40% of them will actually give support. Then they have to be concerned about some of those supporting churches may have some hard months and forced to miss a few months. Then there is the possibility that the church would close.
C. We both know our missionaries. - Yes, the IFB may be more closely attached - but SBC can be just as attached. In addition we do have mission conferences where several missionaries will come and visit our churches.
2)
a) Fellowship - SBC loves fellowship we have local Associations, State Conventions as well as the National SBC. BTW, a church can join just one of the three, two or as most churches do - be in all three. In fact some bordering states/commonwealths - a church may be in two State conventions and/or local associations. In addition at least one state (TX) and one Commonwealth (VA) each have two state conventions. Again - it is up to each independent local church as to which groups. they want to be part of. (Our local association, the Central NY) has a member church in Scranton, PA!
b) there are some fellowship groups with IFB - but there are some IFB that do not want to fellowship with anyone else. Here is one extreme example. When I worked in Christian Radio - in West VA; I happened to visit 2 seperate IFB churches. Both pastors were grads of Hyles-Anderson college. They lived about 20 miles away from each other. When I saw them about 6 months later - neither had attempted to contact each other.. Then, of course, many IFB want nothing to do with SBC pastors or churches.
Bottom line - both groups each have advantages and dis-advantages. We both have the same goal - present the blessed Gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world. Instead of tearing each other down - lets work together.
Also, I should mention that I have been pastor (as well as "regular" member) of both SBC and IFB churches!
There are some other differences but I don't think now is the time to bring that up.
then start a new thread
I would be very interested!
Maybe in the future when the season arises.
Nothing good could come from it now, or maybe nothing good could ever come from it.
OLD SARGE
Active Member
I was, but the problems and the people turned me away from it. My son and DIL were getting into the Charismatic movement and hence my exploratory tour in the AOG. I graduated from three IFB colleges. My daughter graduated from Hyles-Anderson and married a guy from there. I may well have been more IFB than you. My first book was written in much of the IFB tone. I would not change any of the doctrine in the book, I would change the tenor of it. It did save at least one marriage, but I do not refer it to anyone not very Conservative and indeed, the SBC would not like it much and there is one part the IFB would even find too strict.
I was ordained in an IFB church and the pastor was a Hyles-Anderson grad and was a bully and not very sound. I think he listened to his tapes from Hyles and just adapted them a bit. He would speak of hours of study, but one message I remember I went home and in twenty minutes proved he was mistaken. He was very much the "touch not God's anointed" or "don't go up against God's man" type. He was a bit paranoid with Napoleon syndrome. He even put spies on me and accused me of being a TULIP because of one illustration I used that I had no clue the TULIP crowd used. He once told me that one on my beliefs caused people to get divorced. Sadly, he wife committed adultery and he was divorced. I still pray they will get back together. He could not use the usual explanation when I left. It was not the standards as I had more standards then he had. When he was not getting the Amens he wanted he would throw in smoking, drinking and rock and roll. He and his deacons had me backed up against a car accusing me of something I did not do, but was told that by the woman who had wondered if she could be the woman to destroy the church. She and her husband were the spies.
Even after being gone two years, a deacon showed up at my door asking if I was trying to destroy the church. I said, no the pastor is doing a fine job at it so he did not need my help. Indeed, after the betrayal and nonsense, the devil told me how to do it. We were in a predominately Catholic town. All I had to do was to go to the Catholic editor of the local paper and describe how I left a cult and it would have been done. When I was looking for a new church the pastor of the one I joined, a Hyles guy, told me that my ex-pastor was calling churches everywhere warning them I might show up. My new pastor ran into him on a hospital visit and he shut the lad down saying I was his friend.
Having been to various pastor meetings and such I saw he was pretty much the average IFB pastor though fortunately I did work with a couple of rational ones. Many were very egotistical and controlling border lining on being cultist. They thought being rude and crude was taking a stand. They liked bragging about their membership. My guy told people we had a 140 per week. I asked him where he got the number. He added the same forty for each service that week. I tell people you cannot just say IFB. It has to be Independent Fighting Fundamental Baptist and they loved to fight each other and forget merging dying churches because if there was a IFB church not of their camp they would start one even if another IFB church was there. I am of Hyles! I am of Jones! I am of ____.
Ironically, the AOG pastor I served with was more balanced than many of them. He preached sermons like any good Baptist preacher I knew and even some like I have preached. If people heard him preach, but did not bring up the gifts multiple Baptist search committees would have salivated trying to get him to their church.
I have seen some hope in the church where my grandson is about to be ordained. Two churches did actually merge. One had infrastructure, but no people and the other was outgrowing their infrastructure. Common sense prevailed. Yes, the Holy Spirit can suggest common sense. After all, the plan of God was one church per city. When the Baptists start merging instead of splitting we may see a revival unrivaled in the past outside of Acts 2. Yes, we cannot unite everyone, but multiple buildings with the same doctrine being preached is redundancy, bad stewardship and roadblock to evangelism. 15000 churches are projected to close this year and that will probably be a good thing as many of them will be Liberal or cults. Others will be the end of one book book clubs or country club churches that will have to merge or die. In this highly anti-Christian atmosphere it is far past the time where we need to unite and learn keep His mission and agenda before us not our petty little kingdoms. God ordained one temple for a whole nation and we build a myriad of Taj Mahals dedicated to some man or school. Not cool. We will lose many rewards over our unwarranted division. Just saying!
easternstar
Active Member
SadAmen and Amen!
SBC Disfellowships 2 Churches at February Executive Committee Meeting for Appointing Women as Pastors
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has chosen to discontinue its relationship with two congregations that employ women as pastors.
If you believe a Pastor has authority in the Church, how do you explain Paul saying he will not allow a woman to have authority over the man?
The apostle Paul while inspired by the Holy Spirit said in 1 Cor. 3:10 that he was "the wise master builder" and has laid the foundation. He warns us to take heed in how we build on that foundation.
Paul was the master builder of the Church and if any of us think we know more about how the Church should be operated and we fail to follow the mater builder's instructions, that person is going to have some serious problems with the Lord.
easternstar
Active Member
Then you'd better require your women to wear a head covering in church.
Whatever you say, easternstar, it's just good 'ol common sense to me.
My opinion is worth no more that a donut hole.
I say whoever made the decision to disfellowship those Churches based on a female Pastor had the Master Builder's instructions in mind and heart rather than the praise of man.