Christ the risen Saviour, not potential Saviour! 4

[Ben1445]

Another word that has no meaning under this kind of thinking is potential. Nothing has potential if it is just following its course to the next predetermined step. Other words that don’t make any sense or have real meaning are correction, solution, chastisement…. the list goes on in like fashion.
If everything is already decided, there are no corrections to be made, just steps.

 

[Silverhair]

Thats false, that preaching is to the already saved, so they will hear and repent

Why preach that you need to repent and believe the gospel to be saved to people that are already saved?

You just keep proving that you do not know the word of God.

Yes meaning the elect, not national israel. Jesus only gives elect Israel repentance.

That is not what the verse says BF.

Act 5:31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

You used that verse to support your false view and now you continue to prove your lack of biblical knowledge.

The saved

BF you finally got something right. It is the saved that will bring forth fruit.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why preach that you need to repent and believe the gospel to be saved to people that are already saved?

So they can begin their life of Faith and obedience. The elect are saved unto good works

That is not what the verse says BF.

Act 5:31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Yes Israel here is the elect, His Church

BF you finally got something right. It is the saved that will bring forth fruit.

Fruit like Faith, you cant bring forth fruit like faith until after you are saved

 

[Silverhair]

So they can begin their life of Faith and obedience. The elect are saved unto good works

You are not one of the elect until you are saved BF.

Yes Israel here is the elect, His Church

Those who have believed, both Jews and Gentiles.

Fruit like Faith, you cant bring forth fruit like faith until after you are saved

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

You continue to ignore scripture BF.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are not one of the elect until you are saved BF.

The Gospel is sent to the saved in order to instruct them with a knowledge of their salvation. If wasnt for that, there is no need to preach the Gospel. God wants the saved to know they have eternal life 1 Jn 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is elementary

You are not one of the elect until you are saved BF.

False unlearned statement. There are elect Paul said who were yet to obtain salvation 2 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

You dont know the first thing about salvation sir, you caught up in the traditions of men

 

[Silverhair]

The Gospel is sent to the saved in order to instruct them with a knowledge of their salvation. If wasnt for that, there is no need to preach the Gospel.

BF you are preaching a false gospel message for which you will be judged.

False unlearned statement. There are elect Paul said who were yet to obtain salvation 2 2 Tim 2:10

The more you post the more you prove your lack of understanding of the word of God.

2Ti 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of the elect, so that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Paul is speaking to Christians of their final salvation when they will be with Christ in glory. for someone who claims to be a preacher is shocking.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are preaching a false gospel message for which you will be judged.

No you are preaching a false gospel, I hope God deliver you

2Ti 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of the elect, so that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

Right theyre elect who had not yet been converted

Paul is speaking to Christians of their final salvation when they will be with Christ in glory. for someone who claims to be a preacher is shocking.

He was writing Timothy and stated his purpose, he endured much so that the unconverted elect will be converted. God used him and all Gospel preachers for the conversion of the elect.

 

[Psalty]

No you are preaching a false gospel, I hope God deliver you

Right theyre elect who had not yet been converted

He was writing Timothy and stated his purpose, he endured much so that the unconverted elect will be converted. God used him and all Gospel preachers for the conversion of the elect.

2 Timothy 2 starts by talking about what Timothy needs to teach Christians to be solid and faithful. He then brings up the passage that silver hair mentions. He closes by telling Timothy to remind them of these things which he just spoke.

And you suggest that this is the unconverted elect that he is talking about… wow!

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Timothy 2 starts by talking about what Timothy needs to teach Christians to be solid and faithful. He then brings up the passage that silver hair mentions. He closes by telling Timothy to remind them of these things which he just spoke.

And you suggest that this is the unconverted elect that he is talking about… wow!

Yes Paul in 2 Tim 2:10 is speaking of unconverted elect, they had not yet obtained a knowledge of their eternal salvation they have in Christ Jesus

JFB writes

10. Therefore—Because of the anxiety I feel that the Gospel should be extended; that anxiety being implied in 2Ti 2:9.
endure—not merely "I passively suffer," but "I actively and perseveringly endure," and "am ready to endure patiently all things."

the elect's sakes—for the sake of the Church: all the members of Christ's spiritual body (Col 1:24).

they … also—as well as myself: both God's elect not yet converted and those already so.

John Gill writes

that they may also obtain; as well as himself, and other chosen vessels of salvation, who were called by grace already; for the apostle is speaking of such of the elect, who were, as yet, in a state of nature:

This is bible 101

 

[Ben1445]

Yes Paul in 2 Tim 2:10 is speaking of unconverted elect, they had not yet obtained a knowledge of their eternal salvation they have in Christ Jesus

JFB writes



John Gill writes



This is bible 101

John Gill is hardly the end of all conversation.
I read his books plenty but he has several areas where he is quite wrong. Calvinist thinking is one of them.

Calvinist 101, uncontested.

Edit/addition
And the inevitable but weightless response-
“Calvinism is the Bible.”

Ellen White, Joseph Smith and a bunch of other people have their ideas about what is Bible. It requires more than just saying/ claiming it.

 

[Brightfame52]

John Gill is hardly the end of all conversation.
I read his books plenty but he has several areas where he is quite wrong. Calvinist thinking is one of them.

Calvinist 101, uncontested.

Edit/addition
And the inevitable but weightless response-
“Calvinism is the Bible.”

Ellen White, Joseph Smith and a bunch of other people have their ideas about what is Bible. It requires more than just saying/ claiming it.

Im not going to argue with you, You dont believe, you just dont believe.

 

[Silverhair]

Im not going to argue with you, You dont believe, you just dont believe.

The question BF is why do you believe a man-made religion and reject the actual word of God?

So the one that does not believe would seem to be you not @Ben1445

 

[Ben1445]

Im not going to argue with you, You dont believe, you just dont believe.

You or Gill. But mostly you. Gill has some good points. You are a broken record. If you would care to discuss anything else, I’m sure we could find some common ground, otherwise, rest assured, I am not to blame for disagreeing with you. I’m bound to disagree with you and have no ability to change anything because every bit of me is being controlled by God Who is telling me to disagree with you.
By your own logic, I’m just doing God’s will. What else can I do?

 

[Brightfame52]

Now the Israel spoken of in Acts 5:31 to whom their Saviour gives them repentance, its not national physical Israel, but a Spiritual Israel Chosen in Christ, and it includes some Gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Israel the Spiritual Seed of Abraham and of Christ has Gentiles in it!

Also the word granted in Acts 11:18 and the word give in Acts 5:31 are the same greek word didōmi.

 

[Brightfame52]

The question BF is why do you believe a man-made religion and reject the actual word of God?

You should ask yourself that question, cause you fight and oppose the truth of God

 

[Psalty]

Yes Paul in 2 Tim 2:10 is speaking of unconverted elect, they had not yet obtained a knowledge of their eternal salvation they have in Christ Jesus

JFB writes



John Gill writes



This is bible 101

Lets look at the context.

Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory. It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
— 2 Timothy 2:8-13

1. Its not “who will be chosen”, its “who ARE chosen”. Ie, Believers now.
2. Then he launches into a poem on faithfulness to Christ and REMAINING in Him. This poem cannot be applied to people who are not yet believers.

 

[Psalty]

You should ask yourself that question, cause you fight and oppose the truth of God

How can you say that when your god has blinded his eyes to not ask the question?

 

[Brightfame52]

Lets look at the context.

1. Its not “who will be chosen”, its “who ARE chosen”. Ie, Believers now.
2. Then he launches into a poem on faithfulness to Christ and REMAINING in Him. This poem cannot be applied to people who are not yet believers.

Nothing changes

 

[Brightfame52]

How can you say that when your god has blinded his eyes to not ask the question?

Huh

 

[Silverhair]

You should ask yourself that question, cause you fight and oppose the truth of God

BF you disagree with the clear biblical text that I quote. You take verses out of context. You reject the parts of scripture that do not fit your philosophy. You change the meaning of words.

I say God so loved the world that anyone can be saved by trusting in the risen Christ, {John 3:16-17} you on the other hand say only those picked out before creation can be saved.

You continue to oppose and deny the words of God BF and you will be judged for it.

I could go on but I am sure you get the picture of why I and others reject what you are posting.

You follow a false man-made philosophy from the mind of Augustine in the 4th century. Calvin picked it up and it has been carried forward by calvinists such as yourself.

Your false religion has God decree that the vast majority of humanity spend eternity in hell and this for His glory. Even though they did just what He decreed they do and rejected Him. Why damn people that are doing just what He decreed they do?

You in your arrogance think you were picked out B4 creation to be saved. What made you so special? How did you stand out from all those other sinners. Or did you just win the cosmic lottery.

BF take a hard honest look at the philosophy that you follow and you will find it wanting for the truth.