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How to Improve Our English Translations of Scripture

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
My problem is not with the KJV, it’s a wonderful translation. My problem is with ppl claiming it’s the sole trustworthy translation out there.

You're bound and determined not to give them the possibility they could be correct.

When I was being raised up in the IFB Church with these KJVO folks many of them in old days believed that when Luke quoted Paul in Acts 16:31, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE" was a promise from God that He would save a lost member of your household if that was truly the desire of your heart.

I never believed that until after seeing my Mom on here knees at night praying for my Dad's salvation constantly. After all those years and in his 70's my Dad was saved, and did something I thought impossible, he went around town telling everyone he was saved and invited them to Church.

So I had to rethink this and I still wonder if they were right or was it a chance occurrence that it happened. Something tells me it was not by chance.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You're bound and determined not to give them the possibility they could be correct.

When I was being raised up in the IFB Church with these KJVO folks many of them in old days believed that when Luke quoted Paul in Acts 16:31, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE" was a promise from God that He would save a lost member of your household if that was truly the desire of your heart.

I never believed that until after seeing my Mom on here knees at night praying for my Dad's salvation constantly. After all those years and in his 70's my Dad was saved, and did something I thought impossible, he went around town telling everyone he was saved and invited them to Church.

So I had to rethink this and I still wonder if they were right or was it a chance occurrence that it happened. Something tells me it was not by chance.
I see nothing FROM SCRIPTURE they are correct. If the KJV is the sole Bible that is trustworthy to use, where can I find it from the scriptures?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Can you find in Scripture that another set of manuscripts would be found and that God's Word would be translated from it?

You can't even prove your modern Bible is Biblical, see what I'm getting at?

Instead of being so all fired set to condemn the KJVO folks, give them an honest listen.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
You can't even prove your modern Bible is Biblical, see what I'm getting at?

Instead of being so all fired set to condemn the KJVO folks, give them an honest listen.

And I'll tell you something else, SG, they've got much more evidence of their case than you have for yours!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You wish all the many different Bible versions were more similar to each other?

Bible translation differences stem from variations in ancient manuscripts, differing translation philosophies (literal vs. cultural vs. thought-for-thought), and the evolving nature of the English language. Translators must interpret complex Hebrew and Greek, balancing accuracy with readability, while new manuscript discoveries also lead to updated, varying texts.

Ancient languages lack punctuation and have grammatical structures that do not map directly to English, requiring translators to act as interpreters.

As modern English changes, new translations are created to ensure the text remains understandable to contemporary readers.

Multiple translations help to provide a more complete understanding of the original text, as no single translation can perfectly capture every nuance or idiom of the original language.

When there is such disagreement or uncertainty, the best translations of the Bible will acknowledge that in a footnote, making the reader aware of other possible translations or even noting (as the ESV puts it) that “the meaning of the Hebrew [or Greek] is uncertain.”

You think Greek and Hebrew words should be more limited in how many English words can be used to translate them?

You therefore state that “the Greek preposition “ek” which means “out of”, “from” or “away from”, and “by”. It is used to show the point of origin of an action (place, time or cause.) Thus the English word “of” means much the same thing.”

Your semantic insight is flawed. “Of” does not mean much the same as “out of”, “from”, “away from”, or “by”.

"Of" is
a foundational preposition used to indicate relationships like belonging/possession ("the queen of England"), content ("a cup of tea"), origin ("a man of noble birth"), or to link a part to a whole ("most of them"). It also defines characteristics, causes, and connects nouns with nouns or adjectives.
1) To be more concordant means to more consistently translate the same word meaning.
2) The improvement suggested is not affected by various textual differences. The idea is to be more internally consistent in translation meanings.
3) The lack of punctuation has little or no impact, but the grammatical structure must be reflected, thus the avoidance of grammatical transformations.
4) Yes, due to our language shifting, new more concordant translations would be desired about every 25 years.
5) Yes of course, multiple translations are highly desirable, again each of them should strive to be more concordant.
6) Nothing wrong with putting the most probable meaning in the main text, and less certain meanings in the footnotes.
7) Yes, I think for each Hebrew or Greek word or phrase meaning (one or more) the translation should use to the extent possible the same English word or phrase.
8) The Greek word "ek" has multiple meanings, one of which is to point to origin, Van out of (ek) Ireland could be consistently translated as Van of Ireland. To suggest I meant to us "of" for all four meanings is to demonstrate complete lack of understanding or willful ignorance.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lets say a word as used in the NT Greek conveys one meaning. To use jargon, it would be said to be "monosemy" or having one meaning, rather than several related meanings.

When a word is used to convey multiple meanings, a lexicon lists the various meanings or usages in the NT.

When a translator searches for which of the word's multiple meanings best conveys the contextual meaning, he or she would search from among the lexical meanings. Like painting from colors of the grammatical historical semantic range of meanings.

Take the Greek word often translated as "saint." Strong's lexicon lists 4 meanings. If possible, translators could chose four separate words, one for each meaning. If referring to a thing, such as ground set apart for God's purpose, it could be translated as "sacrosanct." If referring to a person set apart for God's purpose, it could be translated consistently as "saint."
There is no need to translate the same word or phrase meaning with more than one or two English words or phrases.
Our current translations sometimes use 6 or 7 different English words to convey the same single Greek meaning. This is unnecessary. They could be more concordant.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

A lack of concordance is evident in all modern translations because they reflect the word choices of the pre-computer age predecessors.

My position is that most Greek words are translated into far too many English words unnecessarily. Rhema, a Greek word that appears about 70 times in the NT, is translated into about 10 different English words, plus plurals, when perhaps 3 or 4 would suffice.

One particularly egregious mistranslation will serve as example. Here is the NASB translation of Luke 1:37:

For nothing will be impossible with God.”

The English word "nothing" is used to translate this Greek word group, "every declaration (Rhema) shall NOT" be impossible with God.

This expands the scope of the message from what God says He will do, to everything imaginable. Fiddlesticks.

Another extremely poor choice is "thing and things." We will use Luke 2:15 as an example:

When the angels had departed from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, “Let’s go straight to Bethlehem, then, and see this "thing" that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us."
[/INDENT]
Here after the angels had made a verbal declaration, the shepherds go to see "this declaration that has happened."
 
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SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Can you find in Scripture that another set of manuscripts would be found and that God's Word would be translated from it?
Huh? You cannot be serious. The reason why mss were found other places was due to scribal copies. As ppl left Israel and went to other regions, they took their copies with them. That’s why they found mss in other regions outside of Israel. Just like the Dead Sea Scrolls.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't even prove your modern Bible is Biblical, see what I'm getting at?

Instead of being so all fired set to condemn the KJVO folks, give them an honest listen.
So, if a non-English speaking person cannot learn to read English, and no one who speaks English witnesses to them, they cannot be saved?
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't even prove your modern Bible is Biblical, see what I'm getting at?

Instead of being so all fired set to condemn the KJVO folks, give them an honest listen.
I’ve given them an honest listening for years and found their evidence lacking. All the vss they use to prove God preserved His word in the KJV can be applied to the modern versions as well.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You can't even prove your modern Bible is Biblical, see what I'm getting at?

Instead of being so all fired set to condemn the KJVO folks, give them an honest listen.
My problem with this also stems from the name calling the KJVO ppl have had against men of God who helped give us our modern versions we love. They’ve even spoke they were evil ppl with evil intent, not ver batim, but that’s what they meant.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
My problem with this also stems from the name calling the KJVO ppl have had against men of God who helped give us our modern versions we love. They’ve even spoke they were evil ppl with evil intent, not ver batim, but that’s what they meant.

I would suggest you stick to your modern versions.

There are extremists on both sides.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
My problem with this also stems from the name calling the KJVO ppl have had against men of God who helped give us our modern versions we love. They’ve even spoke they were evil ppl with evil intent, not ver batim, but that’s what they meant.
Some of the most famous KJVO fanatics were Peter Ruckman, David Otis Fuller, D.A. Waite, Gail Riplinger, and Jack Hyles. It might be a good idea to closely examine the proponents of an opinion before zealously embracing their quarrelsome viewpoints.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Some of the most famous KJVO fanatics were Peter Ruckman, David Otis Fuller, D.A. Waite, Gail Riplinger, and Jack Hyles. It might be a good idea to closely examine the proponents of an opinion before zealously embracing their quarrelsome viewpoints.

The biggest problem the KJVO folks have is all the quarreling among the modern version holders with all their opinions on how the revisions of the modern version should have been dealt with and what the Scripture is actually saying and what precise words should be used.

That would tempt the KJVO folks to believe serious doubt is being established throughout the Scripture, and they don't like that.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem the KJVO folks have is all the quarreling among the modern version holders with all their opinions on how the revisions of the modern version should have been dealt with and what the Scripture is actually saying and what precise words should be used.

That would tempt the KJVO folks to believe serious doubt is being established throughout the Scripture, and they don't like that.

So every time a new modern version comes along or a revision is made in the existing, the KJVO folks, the outspoken ones, will double down on their belief we English speaking people have already been given what God wanted us to have shortly after the Reformation began.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Thanks and God bless.

To repeat my actual question:

So my first question is why are not the translations more concordant?
Arm – A limb of the human body, or a weapon or device used for a specific purpose.
Ball – A round object used in sports, or a formal social event.
Bank – A financial institution, or a raised area of land alongside a body of water.

Find me a concordant language and we will make a concise translation.
No matter what language you translate from or to, there will always be differences of opinion on usages of the original language and best translation options.

Add to that situations where Hebrew didn’t have vowels written down….
Imagine that in English,
“G(e)t m(e) a cp.”

Let’s ignore the fact that the rest of the vowels were supplied. The question is what do I want?
Do I need a hat for my cold head? C(a)p
Or a policeman to report that my hat was stolen? C(o)p
Or do I need a container that I can drink from? C(u)p

Or could I even want a facsimile of something made.(sometimes) C(o)p(y)

There will always be Monday morning QB explanations. The reality is that unless someone is actually doing the translation work themselves, they are not much more than the arm chair quarterbacks who could change the game if only their talent were recognized.
 
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